Aviation > Pilot/Controller Forum

dep frequency within the NY Tracon

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jmcmanna:
Just a guess, do you get assigned a departure frequency when CDW is reporting weather less than basic VFR, and CDW Tower frequency when they are reporting VFR conditions?  I ask because many class D surface areas disappear when the weather goes below basic VFR minima.  If that is the case, CDW tower wouldn't have any airspace, so you'd go directly to the radar facility.

If that's not it, then maybe some controllers coordinate IFR departures off N07 to go straight to the departure frequency, and some prefer not to.  Where RV1 and I work, some controllers would rather give their airspace away to another controller than talk to some airplanes, and other controllers want to talk to every airplane that comes within a mile and a half of the boundary. 

Those are my educated guesses. 

davolijj:

--- Quote from: keith on February 04, 2009, 02:55:13 PM ---I've been vectored through the CDW delta during a visual into Lincoln Park. Prior to IFR cancellation, I asked if I could continue through the Delta and the TRACON guy (sounding a bit annoyed) told me it was already coordinated. (See this video: http://keith.tristesse.com/object/approaches_with_stuart.html?showVideos=true during the last interaction with ATC prior to arrival back home)
--- End quote ---

The controller probably sounded annoyed because when you're on an IFR flight plan and receiving radar service by ATC it's not your responsibility to make sure you're cleared through the Delta....it's the controller's who is providing you service and he knows where the airspace is.


--- Quote from: keith on February 04, 2009, 02:55:13 PM ---The question remains...why is the departure frequency sometimes TRACON, and other times, CDW twr? 
--- End quote ---

I'm guessing the weather was VFR at the time or there's no way the tower would have worked you.  It probably depends on who the controller was in the tower at the time.  VFR towers aren't really intended to work IFR transitions through the surface area, they're intended for IFR/VFR arrivals and departures to the primary airport the surface area surrounds.  That said, if I was working in the tower and had a pattern full of airplanes which could be impacted by the N07 departure, I'd probably want to be talking to the aircraft.  As a tower controller I'd have a much better picture of the traffic than the approach controller.  There may even be a provision in the facility's letter of agreement which provides procedures for such a scenario.  But as far as the inconsistancy between departure frequencies, I'd chalk that up to the controllers working the positions and the traffic conditions at the airport at the time the clearance was delivered.


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jmcmanna:
To update what I wrote above, I looked up the CDW/N90 LOA.  It does state that N07 departures are supposed to call CDW Tower.  When N07 departures aren't a factor with local traffic around CDW, CDW will tell the pilot to contact departure ont he appropriate frequency.  The LOA also says that CDW Tower is authorized to provide visual separation between N07 IFR departures and CDW IFR arrivals.

So, if CDW is VFR, you will talk to them before NY Tracon because they're providing visual separation with CDWs IFR arrivals.  If there aren't any inbounds to CDW, they probably coordinate with CDW tower that N07 departures will go straight to Departure.

mkop:

--- Quote from: KSYR-pjr on February 04, 2009, 01:07:16 PM ---
--- Quote from: mkop on February 04, 2009, 09:40:21 AM ---Regardless of whether they have anything to say to you, you must be in two-way radio contact to enter the airspace. Unless I'm missing something...

--- End quote ---

Actually it is pretty common, at least in the Northeast US, for a surrounding ATC facility to work transient or inbound IFR aircraft for class D towers, at least up to a point.   There is no requirement that the aircraft actually has to be handed off to class D simply for "two-way radio contact"  (this for transient aircraft, not landing IFR aircraft, of course).
--- End quote ---

AIUI, the a/c does not need to be in contact with the tower, but he does need to be in contact with ATC. It seems to me that receiving a departure clearance (by telephone, right?) would not qualify for that.

When flying from an uncontrolled field, how soon after takeoff do you have to contact departure? It seems that because of that variable, in general receiving a departure frequency would not be enough to let you enter the delta.

I'm not sure if I'm being coherent here - I'm really tired. I don't think I'm disagreeing with anyone, just pointing something out.

Disclaimer: I'm not a RW pilot, I'm just a VATSIM controller who is interested by ATC and has read up on it a bit.

Michael

KSYR-pjr:

--- Quote from: mkop on February 05, 2009, 12:58:48 AM ---I'm not sure if I'm being coherent here - I'm really tired. I don't think I'm disagreeing with anyone, just pointing something out.

--- End quote ---

That very well could be it.  I was only pointing out in general that there is no requirement for IFR aircraft to have to contact class D towers strictly for radio contact.  Specifically, though, your point is well taken.

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