Author Topic: EDDF closed?  (Read 16845 times)

Offline AlexN

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EDDF closed?
« on: September 27, 2006, 09:45:54 PM »
Hi!  :-)
I enjoyed listening to EDDF feeds very much, can anybody tell why it has been removed?  :x

Thanks very much for help.
Alex



Offline IndyTower

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Re: EDDF closed?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2006, 09:55:13 PM »

Offline PHL Approach

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Re: EDDF closed?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2006, 10:04:42 PM »
Matt, he's referring to the feed actually being removed. Im sure someone complained to the German authorities, which probably have some regulation about it being illegal just like every other European country.

Offline IndyTower

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Re: EDDF closed?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2006, 10:08:44 PM »
Ah.  I stand corrected.  I've been away from home for weeks and have no idea what's been going on around here.  Forgive me. ;)

Offline dave

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Re: EDDF closed?
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2006, 07:32:11 AM »
Apparently broadcasting ATC is illegal in Germany.  Nobody can cite the specific law, really, and it is probably in German and will require translation.  Even though air traffic communications occur on open frequencies, using unencrypted voice, the law seems to indicate that these communications are not for public consumption. 

I'm quite sure the law dates back to the Cold War days.  :-)  And will likely never change.
Too bad, really.

The authorities should really focus their efforts on things that matter, not chasing radio hobbyists and people interested in learning about aviation.

Unfortunately, for every one of these countries where the law is fuzzy or contentious, there are always people watching on here who run to the authorities the minute a feed comes live - the "drama queens" of LiveATC.  :-)

Dave
« Last Edit: September 28, 2006, 08:02:51 AM by dave »

Offline United B-777

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Re: EDDF closed?
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2006, 11:58:06 AM »
I posted a warning in another thread that has been deleted. But I want to underline: I did not run to any authorities and neither did I tell anybody else. I wanted to be friendly and did not want anybody to get into trouble because they really flip out on this stuff here in Germany. I posted my warning after I heared that people were really starting to make trouble. Again, I did not! I tried to help you guys out!


Offline dave

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Re: EDDF closed?
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2006, 02:09:45 PM »
I posted a warning in another thread that has been deleted. But I want to underline: I did not run to any authorities and neither did I tell anybody else. I wanted to be friendly and did not want anybody to get into trouble because they really flip out on this stuff here in Germany. I posted my warning after I heared that people were really starting to make trouble. Again, I did not! I tried to help you guys out!

Who mentioned you?  I don't recall mentioning any names or anything in my post. 

Dave

Offline United B-777

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Re: EDDF closed?
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2006, 03:31:00 PM »
I know that you did not mention me but I just wanted to clarify this. Sorry if it seemed offending in some way, it wasn't meant to be.

Offline ChAsEr911

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Re: EDDF closed?
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2006, 11:14:34 PM »
Hello,

sorry for warming up such a oldy,
"Apparently broadcasting ATC is illegal in Germany.  Nobody can cite the specific law, really, and it is probably in German and will require translation."

Here we go:
"Telekommunikationsgesetz BGBI I Nr.39 S.1.120 §86 vom 31.07.96 Abhoerverbot, Geheimhaltungspflicht der Betreiber von Empfangsanlagen. Mit einer Funkanlage duerfen Nachrichten, die fuer die Funkanlage nicht bestimmt sind, nicht abgehoert werden. Der Inhalt solcher Nachrichten sowie die Tatsache ihres Empfangs duerfen, auch wenn der Empfang unbeabsichtigt geschieht, (...), anderen nicht mitgeteilt werden."

(I'll try my best regarding the translation ;) )
"Telecomunicationlaw BGBI I Nr.39 S.1.120 §86 vom 31.07.96 prohibition of listening, obligation of secrecy operator of receiving equipment. It's not allowed to listen to messages not destined for the radio station. Relaying of content to other persons of such messages and the fact of their reception, also when the reception is unintended, is not allowed."

Further the ownership of a Radio/Multibandreceiver (Scanner) is allowed in Germany BUT you are not allowed to use it.
You can have one, but its illegal to put batteries in it and program(illegal) frequency as such are: Police and Rescue and ATC Frequencys (Not ATIS, thats allowed cause its made for the Public).
Even unlikely, under circumstances they can put you into jail for 3 to 5 Years (!)
Hope my english is good enough to explain it ;)

But here comes a question, is it allowed for Members of the US-Armed Forces, IN Germany in a US-Housing to put a Airband Scanner online ? Some of my friends are livin in such housings and they are US-Citizens, applys this law to them ?

Peter
*edit*
urrr, and a Happy new Year to you all :)

Offline JetScan1

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Re: EDDF closed?
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2006, 11:37:06 PM »
There are a lot of stupid idiotic laws still on the books all over the world. In the State of Florida you may not fart in a public place after 6 P.M. on Thursdays. There is a Minnesota law that says citizens may not enter Wisconsin with a chicken on their head. In Ohio it is illegal to fish for whales on a Sunday. These are all actual laws (according to some website). These stupid European monitoring laws are really no different. These people that come on here in a frenzied panic warning everyone that it is AGAINST THE LAW are just wasting our time. In this day and age does anyone really think a state government is going to waste their time and taxpayers dollars prosecuting someone because they are transmitting Heathrow or Frankfurt Tower over the internet !? I say put up the feeds and take it all the way to the Supreme Court or the International Court of Justice ! I'll donate $100 to the LiveATC.net legal fund to get things rolling. DJ

Offline poj

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Re: EDDF closed?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2007, 03:38:05 AM »
In Canada, the law states:
Quote
no person shall intercept and make use of, or intercept and divulge, any radiocommunication, except as permitted by the originator of the communication or the person intended by the originator of the communication to receive it.
Radiocommunications Act, 9(2)(b),
Quote
fine not exceeding twenty-five thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year, or to both
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/R-2/258836.html

Offline MathFox

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Re: EDDF closed?
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2007, 05:31:15 AM »
There are a lot of stupid idiotic laws still on the books all over the world. [...] These stupid European monitoring laws are really no different. [...] I say put up the feeds and take it all the way to the Supreme Court or the International Court of Justice ! I'll donate $100 to the LiveATC.net legal fund to get things rolling.
If YOU want to be the defendent in that lawsuit, go ahead and I'll donate 100 Euro to your defense fund. We have too few volounteers that want to run the risk to end up in jail for an ATC feed. :| </sarcasm>
Yes, those laws are stupid; but Germany and the UK are still democracies and it's far better to try to change the bad law via democratic means than to just ignore it. I perfectly understand why Dave and the European volounteers withdrew the feeds; liberty is more important than a Heathrow feed.

Offline ChAsEr911

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Re: EDDF closed?
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2007, 08:20:44 AM »
Hey guys calm down  :mrgreen:
Whenever it comes to laws and politics someone is against it.
I also guess this is not the right place to discuss it ;)

As far Germany is concerned, ok, its really unlikely somone put you in jail for this, but MathFox is right, there is no way to just ignore that law.
Maybe things gettin better over the next 2 or 3 Years cause at this time the Police and Rescue Frequencys are by then Digital, so this law is not longer needed. (Thats the main intention of this law, to protect this "Services" from the Public, and thats okay for me. See it from this side, in case of a accident, i don't want to see a journo first in place cause he listen to ;) )

So far
Peter

Offline RobertK

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Re: EDDF closed?
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2007, 11:20:31 AM »
so this law is not longer needed.
"It is not longer needed" certainly is no argument against a law in Germany.  :p

Regards,

Robert
"You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it ... "