Cessna 172 aborts takeoff at DSM: audio + cockpit video

[Chadan]

At the risk of being admonished for taking my hands from the controls (I can hear it already - "FLY THE PLANE, DUMMY!!!"), here's a clip of me trying to close a door at the start of my takeoff roll at DSM. This is related to ATC because I was able to record some of the audio communications via a handheld scanner next to the video camera:

[SQWK7700]

Aborting the take off was the right thing to do. However,  aviate, navigate, communicate....and fix stuff like doors is a long way down the list. Those C152 door are notorious for not closing properly, had them open in flight a few times.

[NoMad]

At the risk of being admonished for taking my hands from the controls (I can hear it already - "FLY THE PLANE, DUMMY!!!")

Well its deserved admonishment.  You didn't just take your hands off the controls.  You were looking away from the runway leaning over the right seat futzing with the door with the plane moving down the runway at full power.  Then again with power reduced and still rolling.  I can't fathom why you would even put such a stupid move on the internet to begin with.

[Chadan]

NoMad - It's called learning from other people's mistakes. I thought it was a worthwhile experience to share. I don't claim to be perfect but I also don't think my judgement was poor. Preach all you like - I'm fine with my actions.

[BigSky]

Thank you for posting...it is helpful to review other people's unusual encounters.

Are you saying, though, that you wouldn't change how you handled it?

[Chadan]

Hi BigSky. Glad you enjoyed the video. I can't say if I'd handle it exactly the same unless it happens again! I can say that I don't regret how I handled the situation, and felt 100% confident that I did not extend myself beyond my ability to manage the airplane.

To expand on that, keep in mind this was on a lazy Sunday afternoon in the Midwest on a runway twice as wide as any I'd ever seen, with ATC closely monitoring all traffic's every move. At no time was I concerned that I might veer off the runway.

It happened four seconds into my roll so my groundspeed was quite slow, and I was stabilizing the aircraft with the rudder and continued to throughout. Before removing my hands from the controls I decided that I could spare a couple of seconds to close the door, and if unsuccessful I would immediately abort the takeoff. The doors on this Cessna behave very predictably and when the latch mechanism is lifted high and the door is pulled closed they latch easily. But in this case an object prevented it from closing. When the first effort failed I aborted immediately, pulled the throttle, continued to stabilize the aircraft, and then contacted ATC.

And I'm still here to talk about it. 

[Walters]

looked like a perfectly controlled situation to me. great learning experience..and ive flown a small plane into DSM before that runway is HUUUUUGGGGGEEEE in a single

[Chadan]

Thanks Walters. It's good to know others are able to understand the video the way it felt to me. And yes, it's an enormous runway!

[NoMad]

...and I was stabilizing the aircraft with the rudder and continued to throughout.

Really?  While not looking out the window?

I maintain my opinion that this was incredibly bad judgement on a number of fronts.  Glad you're not at my field.

[Chadan]

Glad you're not at my field.

I knew we'd find something to agree on!

[Chadan]

Glad you're not at my field.

I knew we'd find something to agree on!

My reason is because you're obviously a dangerous pilot.  What's your reason?  I'm mean?

I've noticed you seem very quick to judge others, NoMad. Are you the type of person that thinks people are easy to understand? Or do you think your life experiences grant you exclusive knowledge of other's situations?

More to the point, do you think a person is incapable of understanding a system well enough to know when said system requires 100% of their attention vs., say, 80%? I agree that the takeoff roll requires careful focus, but I am also clear that there are a few seconds where steady rudder input is all that necessary to fully control this plane.

In the video I count two-and-a-half... maybe three seconds of distraction with the door, which was broken up by a glance back to centerline. (To address your previous concern: yes, I was looking at the centerline while futzing with the door.) Before, during, and after the door incident I was applying input to the rudder to maintain coordinated roll. The throttle on this plane has a well-adjusted friction-stop and there was no crosswind necessitating aileron input.

As I've said, I don't know if I'd handle it exactly the same way if it happens again. But I did not, even for an instant believe that I put myself, my plane, or any other person or property in peril. These are things that every adult needs to be cognizant of and I do not believe I failed in that responsibility. You are free to sit back and criticize from the other side of your monitor but I challenge that you cannot possibly have the awareness or knowledge with the level of detail about this situation that I as the pilot had, and I take offense to being called 'dangerous' based solely on your armchair observation.

[ogogog]

iam not here to beat you up . what i find most disturbing is not what you did as much as you trying to justify you actions. just because you got away with it this time you thinks its no problem...........but it is plain and simple. as pilots we have all made mistakes but trying to defend the indefensible will just get you killed some day. you even say your not sure if you would handle it the exact same way if it happened showes that you really havent learned from this lesson.its ok to be wrong as long as you not only learn but admit you were wrong, you cant say well yea i made a mistake BUT, there is no BUT you broke the cardinal rule of flying by takeing your hand off the controls during takeoff for a friggen open door end of story. remember your the one that put your self in the public eye on the net.


OG

[Chadan]

Fair enough. I did get away with it this time and you've given me something to think about. Thanks for sharing your sensible comments OG.

[Biff]

There's a reason Cessnas are one of, if not the, most popular training aircraft in the world - they're very forgiving.  They're a great place to make mistakes and get away with it.  The important thing is that we recognize our mistakes as such and learn from them.   A high performance or tail-dragger won't be as forgiving in that same situation.  Don't develop a false sense of confidence and bad habits that will come back to bite you later.

AOPA has some excellent information on the topic of doors popping open:

If a door opens in flight, particularly on takeoff, ignore it! Fly the airplane. Stay in the pattern, and then land and close the door (it would be prudent to determine why the door opened before taking off again). If, for some reason you can't return and land, depart the pattern normally, get into straight and level flight at a safe altitude and check traffic. Then think about closing the door. Even at altitude, this can be hazardous because of the distraction and inadvertent control movement caused by reaching around or across the cockpit, especially if your vision is diverted.

(emphasis mine)

Read the full article.  Knowledge is your #1 safety tool.

[ridejumpfly]

You came to the right decision to abort but a little behind the curve.  Like you said it happened early in the roll and you weren't even going that fast.  With the runway as long as it is you should have just aborted as soon as you recognized the door opening.  You take a second to call the abort to the tower, get it closed while stopped on the runway, then tell them your ready again.  The short amount of time this would take would rarely have the outcome of having to exit the runway.  Like others have said this exact situation has ended in many deaths.  It only takes a second for an animal to enter the runway or a vehicle/aircraft enter right infront of you.  Never rely on ATC to catch a runway incursion. With eyes inside things can end horribly.  Always fly like the feds are in the right seat for a checkride.  The actions you took would probably end in a failure.  Not trying to be mean and I hope you don't take it that way.   

[bcradio]

It's an interesting video... If you can walk away with a lesson learned and apply it to your flying in the future then you'll be safer than you were.  That's a good thing.  

Checklists are important..  When we do the same checklist over and over it can sometimes be easy to miss an item or an order.  On the planes I fly Doors/Windows/Seats Secure is the first item after the runup is complete.  If it's not on yours, I would suggest that is a good spot for it.

Also a couple things... You're pretty aggressive on the throttle on the ground.  A Skyhawk with one person on board on pavement doesn't need the throttle jammed up to 1800-1900 rpm to get going.  Be easy on the thottle - aggressive movements can be dangerous and are bad for the engine.

Cleared for takeoff?  Lights, Camera Action (Lights, Transponder, Go)

Hard to tell with the video, but it would appear that your nav lights, landing and taxi light and possibly strobes are off.  I turn them on after being cleared for takeoff and keep them on - anything that makes you easier to see is a good thing.

Transponder on mode 3 when you are lined up / clear for takeoff.. Doing it before can cause problems with false TCAS RAs for other aircraft.  Even if you don't require a transponder in the airspace you are flying in, turn it on.  It is better for ATC to show a secondary target over a prime one, even if it is just a 1200 squawk and allows TCAS equipped aircraft to detect you.

So there you go.. I often listen to the Live ATC recordings of my flight to find out ways I can improve.  It's always good to learn.

Cheers!

[bcradio]

That should read Nav lights after engine is on, Strobes and Landing light on after being cleared to go

[Chadan]

AOPA has some excellent information on the topic of doors popping open...

Fantastic read Biff. Thanks for sharing.

[Chadan]

blah blah blah blah

Hey that's a pretty useful technique! Think I'll adopt it

But in all seriousness:

And for what its worth, I've had this exact thing happen to me twice, once in a 152 and once in a PA28-161.  And in both situations fiddling with it, taking my eyes away from the windows, and deciding how to handle it was not even a blip on the radar.  I said damn it and continued what I was doing.  The 152 I shut the door once I was in stable flight.  The PA28 required a return to landing since I couldn't get it latched in the air.

There are two choices and only two choices.  Stop and fix it, or fix it in the air...

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences NoMad. I'm glad you chose to contribute to the thread.

[Chadan]

Also a couple things... You're pretty aggressive on the throttle on the ground.  A Skyhawk with one person on board on pavement doesn't need the throttle jammed up to 1800-1900 rpm to get going.  Be easy on the thottle - aggressive movements can be dangerous and are bad for the engine.

Thanks for the observation BC. I'll give that a try.

Cleared for takeoff?  Lights, Camera Action (Lights, Transponder, Go)

I think every instructor has a different method - mine teaches a "H.A.T.S." check:
heading, altimeter, transponder, switches/lights

Hard to tell with the video, but it would appear that your nav lights, landing and taxi light and possibly strobes are off.  I turn them on after being cleared for takeoff and keep them on - anything that makes you easier to see is a good thing.

I was taught to keep the lights off in the daytime but daytime running lamps make cars safer so it does seem like a good idea.

Transponder on mode 3 when you are lined up / clear for takeoff.. Doing it before can cause problems with false TCAS RAs for other aircraft.  Even if you don't require a transponder in the airspace you are flying in, turn it on.  It is better for ATC to show a secondary target over a prime one, even if it is just a 1200 squawk and allows TCAS equipped aircraft to detect you.

So you're saying don't turn it to 'altitude' until cleared for takeoff? I have no idea how it shows up on the controllers screen, but if it's better for them to turn it to 'standby' when taxiing then I'll check into it.

So there you go.. I often listen to the Live ATC recordings of my flight to find out ways I can improve.  It's always good to learn.

Cheers!

Yes, this site is invaluable! Thanks Dave!

Good info BC. Thanks for sharing.

[bcradio]

Once you're on the runway, switch the transponder from standby to Mode 3/C (if you have it).  There is a chance that an arriving aircraft equipped with TCAS might pick up your transponder and get a traffic alert.  If the tower guys' radar pings your aircraft on the ground  it could set off a transponder response and can generate a data block on their screen - it might clutter it a bit too.

Lights in the daytime help visibility, for sure.  I'd be wary of a flight school that says not to use them - they're trying to save costs by not having to replace the bulbs as often. 

The way I see it is that anything you can do to improve your visibility, or safety is worth doing.  Not just for safety, but from a legal standpoint as well.  If there was a mid air collsion with one aircraft not having it's nav lights (or stobes on) you can bet the accident investigators and insurance lawyers would be all over it as a contributing factor.

Give your local tower a call and see if they can get you up for a tour.  They can show you what they do and give you tips on how things work on their side of the radio.  It's a pretty cool experience.

[UPRRSLO]

And for what its worth, I've had this exact thing happen to me twice, once in a 152 and once in a PA28-161.  And in both situations fiddling with it, taking my eyes away from the windows, and deciding how to handle it was not even a blip on the radar.  I said damn it and continued what I was doing.  The 152 I shut the door once I was in stable flight.  The PA28 required a return to landing since I couldn't get it latched in the air.

There are two choices and only two choices.  Stop and fix it, or fix it in the air.  What you did was dumb.  And putting it on the internet was even dumber.  And showing it off going "look at me!" is the dumbest move of the whole thing.

Any more excuses?
[/quote]

I agreed with everythign you said Nomad right up until you said "Any more excuses". You do seem like a jerk at times IMO. What you said in the first two paragraphs was totally professional. What you said at the end well... You get the idea. If you stick to the facts you think are in error people will respect you more on this forum. Yes, I know I tend to joke around a bit, but I am trying to lighten things up. Cheers.

[UPRRSLO]

Sorry Quote didn't work. My bad for the moral police 

[ridejumpfly]

Once you're on the runway, switch the transponder from standby to Mode 3/C (if you have it).  There is a chance that an arriving aircraft equipped with TCAS might pick up your transponder and get a traffic alert.  If the tower guys' radar pings your aircraft on the ground  it could set off a transponder response and can generate a data block on their screen - it might clutter it a bit too.

It is true that you could tag up on the ground.  At my facility the Mesa (Air Shuttle) aircraft tag up at the gate all the time so we have to put a hold message in the NAS, this is no big deal but just annoying.  As a VFR departure it doesn't have an impact.  We will just suspend your data tag until you depart but like the OP said utilizing SBY until cleared for takeoff is a good practice.  Just be sure to know which airports you fly to use ASD-X (this should be in the ATIS), there you will use ALT on the ground when on movement areas.  As far as TCAS,  inhbits RA's below 1000agl so that shouldn't be a factor.   

[NoMad]

Far as I'm concerned, landing light should be on anytime you're on the runway and during approach or departure.  Strobes from the time you cross the hold short line on departure to crossing it after landing.  Mode C is the same, unless you're at an airport that requires mode C on the ground for ASDE-X.  Tail beacon anytime the engine is running.  Nav lights at night obviously.