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Author Topic: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France  (Read 27385 times)

Offline johnm1019

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Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« on: March 24, 2015, 07:01:43 AM »
Any audio around there?  Searching now

EDIT: Reuters source
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/24/us-france-crash-airbus-lufthansa-idUSKBN0MK0ZP20150324

FlightAware
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/GWI9525/history/20150324/0835Z/LEBL/EDDL

Departure:
LEBL Barcelona: Feed Available

Center:There are 5 in france
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_en_route_de_la_navigation_a%C3%A9rienne
Most likely Aix-En-Provence, no feed?

Nearby:
LFMN Nice: Approach Feed Available
0900-0930Z, nothing -- someone should look at this feed, crazy clipping for some radios
0930-1000Z, nothing -- also exhibits unusable gain
1000-1030Z, nothing
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 07:40:58 AM by johnm1019 »



Offline hotdog12

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2015, 09:17:19 AM »
Got the recording of it's departure from BCN anyone?

Offline jvnanu

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2015, 09:42:50 AM »
CNN reporting that there was a mayday call.

Offline onedelta

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2015, 10:02:10 AM »
According to the "DGAC", It looks like ATC did send the mayday call, not the pilots.

Quote
14 h 40. L'équipage de Germanwings n'a pas émis d'appel de détresse

L'équipage de la compagnie Germanwings n'a pas émis d'appel de détresse, a indiqué la Direction générale de l'aviation civile. « L'équipage n'a pas émis de 'mayday'. C'est le contrôle aérien qui a décidé de déclarer l'avion en détresse car il n'avait plus aucun contact avec l'équipage et l'avion », a-t-elle expliqué.

Offline JETSET843D

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2015, 10:58:36 AM »
On the LEBL TWR 0900-0930Z at approx 1:40 you hear them change frequency as GWI18G.

God bless them all,

James


Offline joeyb747

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2015, 06:40:38 PM »
Thoughts and prayers to the passengers, crew, families, and the rescuers going into this area of remarkable terrain...

... :cry:...

Just some data on the aircraft:

The aircraft is D-AIPX (CN 147), an A320-211 operated by Germanwings. She is pictured below, this image taken in Sept of 2014.
 
She was built in 1990, and delivered new to Lufthansa on 02/05/1991. She spent her life operating for Lufthansa and Germanwings.
(They seemed to share the airframe. Germanwings is the low cost branch of Lufthansa.)

On 07/10/2003, she was transferred to Germanwings.
On 07/22/2004, she was transferred back to Lufthansa.
And finally, on 01/31/2014, she was transferred back to Germanwings, the entire time maintaining the same German registration.  

Preliminary AvHerald Article:

http://avherald.com/h?article=483a5651&opt=0

Lots of news clips from CNN, as per usual wit the media, take them with a grain of salt:

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/03/24/ath-gorani-mountain-guide-germanwings-plane-crash.cnn/video/playlists/germanwings-flight-9525-plane-crash/
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 06:52:27 PM by joeyb747 »

Offline urodoc1333

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2015, 09:07:32 PM »
Looking at Flightaware data..plane was in a rapid descent with airspeed decreasing indicating a controlled descent perhaps with speed brakes deployed.  In the last few second they got real low and slow with airspeed less than 150 kts with direction course varying from Northeast to southeast.  Must have been disoriented.. The pilot was reported to have squawked 7700 prior to descent.  Equipment failure seems the most likely then IMC disorientation?

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2015, 04:34:06 PM »
I doubt IMC taking them down from cruise altitude. Looks to me like another case of a "100% reliable" HAL 9000 taking down a fly-by-wire Airbus and, just as we saw with Air France over the Atlantic, my prediction is that the CVR will show the crew discussing various aspects of the law as they held nose-high in a stall for eight or ten minutes throughout the descent. Loss of power would have absolutely resulted in a MayDay call, but confusion, distraction and disorientation are seldom acknowledged outside the cockpit, especially with veteran pilots. Just another reason why I am always uncomfortable riding in any fly-by-wire aircraft that is not equipped with ejection seats.

If you think I sound angry, it's because I am... ever since I saw that Airbus fly into the trees after a low pass at a French air show (HAL wouldn't let them spool the engines back up with the gear down) in the late 80's I have never believed fly-by-wire to be suitable for commercial passenger aircraft. In almost all cases where these aircraft encounter unanticipated (by the mastermind engineers) circumstances or events and can no longer keep the aircraft in a safe condition or permit avoidance of unsafe conditions, they hand the pilot either an uncontrollable or unrecoverable aircraft.

Offline joeyb747

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2015, 06:12:58 PM »
Looking at Flightaware data..plane was in a rapid descent with airspeed decreasing indicating a controlled descent perhaps with speed brakes deployed.  In the last few second they got real low and slow with airspeed less than 150 kts with direction course varying from Northeast to southeast.  Must have been disoriented.. The pilot was reported to have squawked 7700 prior to descent.  Equipment failure seems the most likely then IMC disorientation?

I had heard that there was a 50 kias or so variance during the climb out, but not on the decent. I had not heard that the aircraft slowed to as low as 150 kias on the decent. This is far below clean stall speed in the A320, if i am not mistaken. In fact, radar tracks show the opposite, see the latest from AvHerald. The article indicates the aircraft impacted the ground at a high rate of speed. Radar track does not indicate the turn you mention either... Where did you hear that? Flightaware shows the path continuing northeast:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/GWI9525/history/20150324/0835Z/LEBL/EDDL
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/GWI9525/history/20150324/0835Z/LEBL/EDDL/tracklog

On the Track Log, the ADS-B Data in incomplete, and is "ESTIMATED"...

The 7700 squawk is unconfirmed as well at this time. ATC declared a MAYDAY on the aircraft's behalf after they descended below safe altitude.

Avhearld:

"On Mar 25th 2015 France's Minister of Interior reported that the recovered black box was the cockpit voice recorder. The CVR is damaged but usable.

On Mar 25th 2015 the French BEA reported in a press conference, that the aircraft was following its planned flight path. After cruising at FL380 for a little while the aircraft began to descend at about 09:30Z at a rate of 3500 fpm. The last radar position recorded by French ATC was at 6175 feet MSL at 09:40:47Z very close to the point of impact. The aircraft impacted ground at very high speed. The CVR was found on site at about 17:00L and handed over to the BEA, at 09:45L on Mar 25th the memory module was removed from the part left pretty much intact, there were some problems reading the data, but the BEA have been able to extract the audio file that can be used. This concluded the official part of the BEA press conference. In the questions the BEA reported, they have been able to listen to the audio for a first time, but having the audio only for a few minutes prior to the press conference are unable to make any further statement. The debris and distribution of debris does not suggest there has been any explosion on board of the aircraft. When confronted by journalists with rumours originating in Finnish media quoting Finland's CAA about a burst windshield, the BEA said they have no such information."


http://avherald.com/h?article=483a5651&opt=0
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 06:27:13 PM by joeyb747 »

Offline joeyb747

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2015, 08:38:51 PM »
BREAKING NEWS...

CNN is reporting one of the pilots may have been locked out of the cockpit...

« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 08:53:18 PM by joeyb747 »

Offline anuoldman

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2015, 09:47:50 PM »
NYtimes is reporting that an investigation source says one pilot was locked out of the cockpit and when he discovered it, he knocked and with no response started trying to smash the door down

http://goo.gl/eKgHgU


WOW....  looking like an intentional crash

Offline woofcat

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2015, 10:22:12 PM »
Perhaps one of the pilots became incapacitated and the door was locked. Massive heart attacks happen far more frequently than rogue pilots.

Offline anuoldman

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2015, 11:11:33 PM »
Perhaps one of the pilots became incapacitated and the door was locked. Massive heart attacks happen far more frequently than rogue pilots.

If it was a:
1- massive heart attack or other health problem and
2- it happened to occur after the PIC locked the door and
3- the PIC happened to slump perfectly over to initiate a straight line decent and
4- it happened during the 2 minutes one pilot is in the head
5- and the emergency code to gain entry didn't work or was changed or the pilot didn't know it

well... it might not be more common than rogue pilots....  dunno

In the article, another investigator strongly hinted at the rogue scenario.
we'll see
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 06:52:32 AM by anuoldman »

Offline Magoomm

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2015, 08:19:50 AM »
Perhaps one of the pilots became incapacitated and the door was locked. Massive heart attacks happen far more frequently than rogue pilots.

Couldn't agree more.  It is best to wait for the investigators to thoroughly evaluate all of the factors in this accident.  I trust them far more than the NYT or CNN quoting an anonymous source.

Offline ccc343

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2015, 09:33:57 AM »
Now FOX reporting co pilot intentionally crashed the plane..

Offline trichorse

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2015, 08:51:26 PM »
My father, who was watching news, stated that the news stated that the CVR recording did indicate that the plane was intentionally crashed by the co-pilot.  So it's not just news speculation, there is evidence to back it up.

Offline bayoubrut

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2015, 09:22:23 PM »
What is going through a persons head for them to even consider doing something like this?  It's not suicide, it is mass murder.  I would like to know how a pilot gets this far gone without red flags?

Offline simon84

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2015, 09:15:57 AM »

Offline ORD Don

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2015, 10:58:12 AM »
What is going through a persons head for them to even consider doing something like this?  It's not suicide, it is mass murder.  I would like to know how a pilot gets this far gone without red flags?


           Good questions - no answers.  Very sad....

Offline trichorse

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2015, 12:13:00 PM »
My father, again watching the news, said that investigators apparently searched the co-pilots house and found a torn up peice of paper that excused him from flying...and evidence of a medical problem, what kind they are not saying.

Offline simon84

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2015, 05:11:50 PM »
My father, again watching the news, said that investigators apparently searched the co-pilots house and found a torn up peice of paper that excused him from flying...and evidence of a medical problem, what kind they are not saying.

Dont trust the media 100% on this one here until final conclusion has been made by the investigation team.

The piece of paper police found is part of the standard process for sick leave in Germany.
It is required so that employers and health insurance will continue to pay your salary while on sick leave.
Could even be regarding a flu or back pain !

No details are being disclosed about the nature of the diagnosis, but a statement was made that the alleged "depression" is incorrect.

Offline anuoldman

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2015, 06:02:53 PM »

Could even be regarding a flu or back pain !

No details are being disclosed about the nature of the diagnosis, but a statement was made that the alleged "depression" is incorrect.

NYTimes has quoted numerous sources that it was a psychiatric condition other than depression and that he was admitted to a hospital for evaluation twice in the last 60 days (!) ...  that's pretty significant... to get admitted means a serious condition or symptoms

man is Lufthansa going to be stroking some checks .... 

http://goo.gl/OdBcI5


Offline Han

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2015, 07:55:44 AM »
I'm just not convinced by anything that media says about him. Even if he was diagnosed with depression I don't believe he would crash an airplane with 150 souls on board.

Offline anuoldman

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Re: Germanwings 4U-9525 down in France
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2015, 08:30:26 AM »
I'm just not convinced by anything that media says about him. Even if he was diagnosed with depression I don't believe he would crash an airplane with 150 souls on board.

I guess I don't understand the persistent belief in this thread, in spite of obvious logical evidence from dozens of sources, that a pilot must be some kind of superior being that is immune to any sort of bias, evil, illness, or whatever defect he had which caused him to do this.

I'm a pilot also like almost everyone here, but I don't get why there is so much denial going on....

he did it...
it was obvious from the first report of the audio...
he was insane in some way...
it was obvious from his actions and the hundreds of articles that followed about his health history
yes, he's a pilot, but that doesn't make him any better than the general population