airtraffic

Author Topic: STAR question  (Read 18391 times)

Offline Bking

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
STAR question
« on: March 02, 2020, 11:30:36 AM »
 If when I am on a STAR and the assigned transition lets say is, COLTS ( Oakland County Mi. Axxis.Oklnd1) if the controller tells me to proceed direct to another fix on the transition lets say PICUP, does this void the STAR and now becomes a vectored arrival or do I still have to adhere to the published route/altitude step downs??



Offline tyketto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1140
Re: STAR question
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2020, 01:18:00 PM »
If when I am on a STAR and the assigned transition lets say is, COLTS ( Oakland County Mi. Axxis.Oklnd1) if the controller tells me to proceed direct to another fix on the transition lets say PICUP, does this void the STAR and now becomes a vectored arrival or do I still have to adhere to the published route/altitude step downs??

Simply put, if ATC explicitly gives you any speed restriction, it cancels all speed restrictions on the STAR until ATC tells you once again to resume the arrival (assuming the STAR is non-RNAV) or "descend via" (if the STAR is RNAV).

Same applies for vectoring. If ATC gives you a vector or tells you "proceed/cleared direct XXXXX", that cancels the STAR, including the speed restrictions published on the STAR. To that effect, you've been taken off of the STAR, so you no longer have to adhere to it, but instead have to adhere to ATC instructions.

BL.

Offline Bking

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: STAR question
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2020, 01:34:16 PM »
Thanks Tyketto

Offline Radar Contact

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: STAR question
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2023, 04:11:12 PM »
I would watch the nuance here. A vector or deviation off the SID/STAR would cancel published altitudes and speeds. However, a clearance direct another point along the SID/STAR would not necessarily cancel any published restrictions at/beyond that point. There may be slight differences in this interpretation depending on the facility SOP.


7110.65 5-6-2.

Offline tyketto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1140
Re: STAR question
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2023, 06:22:41 PM »
I would watch the nuance here. A vector or deviation off the SID/STAR would cancel published altitudes and speeds. However, a clearance direct another point along the SID/STAR would not necessarily cancel any published restrictions at/beyond that point. There may be slight differences in this interpretation depending on the facility SOP.


7110.65 5-6-2.

But doing that also introduces another issue altogether, especially with speed restrictions. For example, if I'm on the MISEN.RNDRZ2 into Las Vegas, I have a crossing restriction and speed restriction at RNDRZ at at/below FL190 and at/above 13000, and at 250kts. If I was given "cleared direct TWAFL", I am to proceed directly to TWAFL, which has me omitting the crossing restriction of at/above 9000 and at 210kts at REDQN. TWAFL is still on the STAR. Because of that, I no longer have any profile to descend via, and am to maintain the altitude and speed given by ATC until I am given the call to "descend via" again. That "cleared direct" at RNDRZ canceled the published restriction at REDQN.

5-6-2.c and 5-6-2.f apply. Regardless, a reason for the deviation needs to be given, as you are taking them off the profiled descent, as I mentioned before.

BL.