Author Topic: radio clarity - "affirmative" vs. "negative"  (Read 8818 times)

Offline Chadan

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radio clarity - "affirmative" vs. "negative"
« on: August 01, 2011, 06:32:21 AM »
I was listening to an audio clip from Oshkosh and was surprised how hard it was for me to discern "Affirmative" from "Negative". What is the general consensus from ATC and experienced pilots about using these words?

This wikipedia article mentions the problem I'm discussing. I felt it necessary to clarify since the previous thread seemed to spiral into nonsense.


Feed provider for KBNW out of Boone, Iowa on 123.0. Also catching chatter from nearby airports: KAMW (122.7), KIKV (122.9) and the Aviation Guard channel (121.5)

Offline Walters

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Re: radio clarity - "affirmative" vs. "negative"
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2011, 07:57:14 PM »
for me its like learning a language. as time goes by you just understand better..and if there is ever a question you just ask

Offline aeguana

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Re: radio clarity - "affirmative" vs. "negative"
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2011, 02:49:12 PM »
ICAO standardized phraseology  didn´t allow the use of affirmative, instead the use of the "word" affirm was recommended in order to avoid such misunderstanding.  :-)
But now they accepted it. I don´t think it was very wise, but they did it. :|

Offline Chadan

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Re: radio clarity - "affirmative" vs. "negative"
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2011, 03:08:19 PM »
Thank you for that information aeguana! I will see how I like using "affirm".

And congratulations for being the first on-topic reply!   :roll:
Feed provider for KBNW out of Boone, Iowa on 123.0. Also catching chatter from nearby airports: KAMW (122.7), KIKV (122.9) and the Aviation Guard channel (121.5)

Offline t3hwookie90

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Re: radio clarity - "affirmative" vs. "negative"
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2011, 04:34:44 PM »
I was listening to an audio clip from Oshkosh and was surprised how hard it was for me to discern "Affirmative" from "Negative". What is the general consensus from ATC and experienced pilots about using these words?

This wikipedia article mentions the problem I'm discussing. I felt it necessary to clarify since the previous thread seemed to spiral into nonsense.

That audio clip is not something I would really compare "proper usage" of phraseology to. An air boss's function is much different that a FAA regulated towers. The air boss just needs to coordinate traffic for the show thats running, so a lot of the phraseology they use is nonstandard. As a commercial pilot I have used and heard the words "affirmative/afirm or negative" quite a lot and never have a problem understanding them.

There is a language to aviation and in my opinion there is also another language to air shows. Communication is all relative and based in the situation you are in. In my experience air show communication with the air boss is little more than a series of grunts, mumbled words and shouts, but all the pilots flying in that show understand whats going on.

Quick answer: that audio clip does NOT accurately represent the usage of approved phraseology and radio calls.
Short question long answer.

Offline Chadan

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Re: radio clarity - "affirmative" vs. "negative"
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2011, 04:41:23 PM »
Thanks wookie. It's good to know than you've never heard an "Affirmative" or "Negative" that was unclear. As a commercial pilot how often do you hear 'affirm'? I started using it last week and it does sound a little unnatural.
Feed provider for KBNW out of Boone, Iowa on 123.0. Also catching chatter from nearby airports: KAMW (122.7), KIKV (122.9) and the Aviation Guard channel (121.5)

Offline t3hwookie90

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Re: radio clarity - "affirmative" vs. "negative"
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2011, 02:02:03 PM »
Thanks wookie. It's good to know than you've never heard an "Affirmative" or "Negative" that was unclear. As a commercial pilot how often do you hear 'affirm'? I started using it last week and it does sound a little unnatural.

It may take a little to get used to but I use it a lot for "short" ATC instructions instead of using wilco.

Offline captray

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Re: radio clarity - "affirmative" vs. "negative"
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2011, 09:02:23 AM »
Pronounced A-Firm makes more sense. It's all in the inflection :-D
Cancel the IFR~!