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Aviation => Pilot/Controller Forum => Topic started by: cleo50 on November 03, 2009, 11:43:07 AM

Title: New article on Roger-Wilco
Post by: cleo50 on November 03, 2009, 11:43:07 AM
Check out for a new article on enterprise architecture and service orientation. These new buzzwords in air traffic management need to be understood by all who want to knwo how the future ATC system will serve us all.
Title: Re: New article on Roger-Wilco
Post by: davolijj on November 03, 2009, 10:07:58 PM
I'm not sure who publishes this blog but it looks like to me like a marketing resource of one or several of the private sector Nextgen contractors.  In fact it almost looks like the handywork of Robert Poole and the Reason Foundations - a private-sector "think tank" (and I'm using the work "think" very loosely), whose primary goal is to deregulate and contract out virtually all goverment services.

The article "Air traffic service provision – business logic in reverse?" is riddled with conjecture and spin.  A more objective and accurate look at ATC financing can be found here (

I'm not sure when people are going to realize that concepts employed in European ATC may not work in the US.  The sheer volume of air traffic we have to contend with in this country makes many of these ATS and ATM concepts impossible to pull off.  The US government needs to be very careful in the coming years or we will end up throwing billions of taxpayer dollars away on a pipe-dream - all because of a full-court marketing blitz which includes industry blogs like Roger-Wilco.
Title: Re: New article on Roger-Wilco
Post by: cleo50 on November 15, 2009, 03:04:49 AM
I think the "business logic" post highlights one of the basic problems of ATC financing in Europe. When demand falls off, prices tend to go up because of the full-cost recovery system. European service providers struggle to keep unit costs down but sometimes they too face a wall. Financing ATC in the US is on a completely different basis and the message, I think, is that there are lessons to be taken into account before the US financing system is changed.

As for the concepts... Some things will obviously work on both sides of the pond, others won't. The important thing is to ensure that there is interoperability to the required degree. Otherwise the airlines will not accept new developments. Lack of interoperability can kill most business cases. This is true even if we consider aircraft types that only operate in continental airsapce. Region-specific gear is always a lot more expensive than one meeting worldwide standards.

Overall, your point is a very good one. Neither Europe, nor the USA should introduce things that are not properly validated with the benefits proven beyond a doubt.
Title: Re: New article on Roger-Wilco
Post by: cleo50 on November 15, 2009, 03:07:32 AM
By the way... the blog seems to accept comments so you might want to write them also. I guess they are interested in your views.
Title: Re: New article on Roger-Wilco
Post by: davolijj on November 17, 2009, 04:33:47 PM
I'd be more likely to engage in meaningful debate about the topics discussed in this blog if I knew something about the author.  If someone would show me from where the blog derives its credibility I'd be happy to read it and extract meaningful thought and information from its contents.  Until that happens, I'll just assume that this blog is another shill for the privatization of the American ATC system.
Title: Re: New article on Roger-Wilco
Post by: cleo50 on November 19, 2009, 02:51:07 AM
Roger-Wilco is an initiative of a European consultancy, BluSky Services, which has been intimately involved in the defintion of the concept of operations for the SESAR project (NextGen's European equivalent). Roger-Wilco's editor and the contributors are very familiar with NextGen also since ensuring interoperability is a very imoortant priority.
One contributor is an ex-air traffic controller and he has worked as a process specialist bulding the Amsterdam ATC system. They have extensive experience also in the airline world (needed to make sure they understand both sides of the coin).
I can assure you that there is no hidden agenda and certainly no intention to support (or to oppose) a priory any ATM development as such.
On the other hand, they are very interested in hearing views on the subjects they write about and are certainly not looking only for respnses that endorse things. Opposite views are very welcome also.
Hope this clarifies matters a little and you will now consider the blog as a worthwhile place to write to. By the way, being Europe based does not mean that the blog is "Europen". They aim to present views from all over the world. Air traffic management, though slightly different in the different parts of the World, but it does have certain important common elements that have the same features and problems everywhere.
The US and Europe are curretnly the two trendsetting regions in many aspects (though not all!) of ATM and hence there are and will be many lessons to learn and share.