Author Topic: Do I need to get a ATC clearance?  (Read 15887 times)

Offline jeseong

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Do I need to get a ATC clearance?
« on: August 02, 2014, 11:11:32 AM »
Hell, GUYS~

If I'm at the Taxiway Holding Position line,
(As you know, it is yellow dashed lines on the taxi way intersection)

Do I have to get a clearance from a controller to cross taxi way intersection? :?

« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 10:08:07 PM by jeseong »



Offline 1053857

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Re: Do I need to get a ATC clearance?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2014, 11:34:36 AM »
You need clearance to enter the movement area.

Offline jermscentral

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Re: Do I need to get a ATC clearance?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2014, 09:41:51 PM »
As 1053857 stated, if the taxiway holding position line marks the entrance to the movement area, then yes, you need ATC clearance to proceed.

If, however, you're already taxiing and encounter the combination dashed/solid lines, you may proceed through the intersection so long as the dashed lines are the ones facing you. "Dash through the dash; stop at the solid."

Do you have an airport diagram with labels to show the intersection to which you are referring?

Offline jeseong

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Re: Do I need to get a ATC clearance?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2014, 10:13:37 PM »
I deeply appreciate for replis.

I have added a diagram.

Thanks.

Offline jermscentral

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Re: Do I need to get a ATC clearance?
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2014, 12:03:01 AM »
In the USA, if you are issued a taxi route from your present position to a runway, you are authorized to cross all other taxiways along that route, and you would only need to stop at the runway "hold short" line unless previously being given to cross the runway.

Offline mkbraun1

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Re: Re: Re: Do I need to get a ATC clearance?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2014, 02:28:50 AM »
In the USA, if you are issued a taxi route from your present position to a runway, you are authorized to cross all other taxiways along that route, and you would only need to stop at the runway "hold short" line unless previously being given to cross the runway.
That's no longer true actually. It used to be that way but now we are required to receive clearance to cross all runways, even closed runways. I'm on the phone otherwise I would reference that for you.

Offline tyketto

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Re: Re: Re: Do I need to get a ATC clearance?
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2014, 01:15:29 PM »
In the USA, if you are issued a taxi route from your present position to a runway, you are authorized to cross all other taxiways along that route, and you would only need to stop at the runway "hold short" line unless previously being given to cross the runway.
That's no longer true actually. It used to be that way but now we are required to receive clearance to cross all runways, even closed runways. I'm on the phone otherwise I would reference that for you.

This is true. You need explicit clearance to cross all runways now in the US. That changed prior to the .65T being current (now, we are obviously further in revisions), but the change was made at least 2 - 3 years ago.

BL.

Offline martyj19

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Re: Do I need to get a ATC clearance?
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2014, 03:18:56 PM »
The single dashed line is a Intermediate Taxi-Holding Position and they are probably fairly rare; I can't think of anywhere I have noticed one.  You would already be in the movement area, so that's not relevant; otherwise the marking would instead be the solid/dashed movement area boundary.  As best I can tell you would be instructed to "hold short of taxiway Delta", and if not so instructed, you'd be clear to cross by virtue of the preceding taxi clearance, since you can implicitly cross taxiways (but not runways).  Of course a particular jurisdiction may have different rules than those in the US, so the original poster is well advised to check the policy for the specific country.

The reference is Advisory Circular 150/5340-1L, Section 3.1 Case 6, and Section 3.6.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 03:37:36 PM by martyj19 »

Offline jermscentral

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Re: Re: Re: Do I need to get a ATC clearance?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2014, 10:00:19 PM »
In the USA, if you are issued a taxi route from your present position to a runway, you are authorized to cross all other taxiways along that route, and you would only need to stop at the runway "hold short" line unless previously being given to cross the runway.
That's no longer true actually. It used to be that way but now we are required to receive clearance to cross all runways, even closed runways. I'm on the phone otherwise I would reference that for you.

This is true. You need explicit clearance to cross all runways now in the US. That changed prior to the .65T being current (now, we are obviously further in revisions), but the change was made at least 2 - 3 years ago.

BL.


My grammar sucked on the original post because I changed part of the wording without correcting the rest of it, but I did say you had to stop at the runway "hold short" line unless you've been authorized to cross. I never said you could cross a runway without a clearance. I said you were authorized to cross all taxiways along that route.

/work in a tower

Offline StuSEL

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Re: Do I need to get a ATC clearance?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2014, 09:34:05 PM »
Hold up, everyone. Those aren't hold short lines. That's a new type of line I've been seeing at certain airports but cannot discern what they even mean. As far as I know it is not in the AIM -- we've checked.

Offline svoynick

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Re: Re: Re: Do I need to get a ATC clearance?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2014, 03:26:35 AM »
My grammar sucked on the original post because I changed part of the wording without correcting the rest of it, but I did say you had to stop at the runway "hold short" line unless you've been authorized to cross. I never said you could cross a runway without a clearance. I said you were authorized to cross all taxiways along that route.
Actually, in spite of your odd verb construct at the end ("previously being given to cross" - ha ha, nice translation there  :wink: ), it was pretty clear to me what you said:  if you're cleared to a runway, you're cleared to cross all taxiways, but must hold short of any runway until explicitly cleared to cross.

Offline svoynick

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Re: Do I need to get a ATC clearance?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2014, 03:28:01 AM »
Hold up, everyone. Those aren't hold short lines. That's a new type of line I've been seeing at certain airports but cannot discern what they even mean. As far as I know it is not in the AIM -- we've checked.
Just to be clear, you're talking about a single, yellow dashed line, across the taxiway, all by itself?

Offline None.

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Re: Do I need to get a ATC clearance?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2014, 12:00:11 PM »
Hold up, everyone. Those aren't hold short lines. That's a new type of line I've been seeing at certain airports but cannot discern what they even mean. As far as I know it is not in the AIM -- we've checked.

I just checked, too, and I did find it in the AIM. See AIM ยง 2-3-5(c) - "Holding Position Markings for Taxiway/Taxiway Intersections" and the accompanying figure, FIG 2-3-17:



EDIT: Forgot to answer the OP's question... because the verbiage in the AIM states "When instructed by ATC 'hold short of (taxiway)...", it seems clear that the lines do not automatically imply a hold short instruction - it must be explicitly issued by ATC.

In other words, these lines don't do anything except help you to know where to stop if issued a normal "hold short" instruction.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 12:02:57 PM by swa4678 »

Offline StuSEL

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Re: Do I need to get a ATC clearance?
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2014, 01:52:11 AM »
Nice. I didn't realize they were putting these on certain taxiways now, but it looks like it's for wingspan clearance purposes when aircraft are taxiing on the perpendicular taxiways. Makes sense. Thanks.