airtraffic

Author Topic: Departing/Arriving under B and C shelves  (Read 28252 times)

Offline jmallard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Departing/Arriving under B and C shelves
« on: June 11, 2010, 04:18:17 PM »
I'm a student pilot nearing my checkride for my PPL so please excuse my ignorance here. Shortly after my checkride (assuming I pass) I'm wanting to head south to EYE which lies about 6 miles from IND. I don't really want to try to remain under the shelf for Indy since the floor is 2100 and highest obstacle for that block is 2000.

My question is, what is the proper procedure for arriving and departing VFR to EYE and talking to IND? I am assuming that I would contact approach and ask to transition their airspace to EYE and then I could just follow instructions from there. However once on the ground, who do I contact to leave? Clearance or departure and what exactly do I tell them?

Thanks for the help.


Mike



Offline captray

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • G4 in Czech Republic
Re: Departing/Arriving under B and C shelves
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2010, 06:13:26 PM »
I doesn't matter if it's IND or ATL or ORD the procedure is the same.

If you get VFR flight following, the controller will, workload permitting, hand you off as necessary. That being said, you will have to be in contact with the controlling agency of the class B. It's not that big of a deal.

To leave, contact clearance delivery, if there is one, ground if there isn't and tell them what you would like to do. ' VFR flight following to XXX, transitioning through the Bravo.' That should do it.

Just remember; who you are, where you are, what you want to do.
Plain English works best, that way there is less chance for confusion.

By the way, good luck on the checkride, I'm sure you'll do fine!

Ray
Cancel the IFR~!

Offline rpd

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
Re: Departing/Arriving under B and C shelves
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2010, 06:50:38 PM »
Merely being in contact with ATC does NOT give you an automatic Class B clearance (like it does in Class C).  Pilots need a specific Class B clearance to enter.

Offline TwinkiePilot

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Departing/Arriving under B and C shelves
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2010, 10:51:23 PM »
I'm a student pilot nearing my checkride for my PPL so please excuse my ignorance here. Shortly after my checkride (assuming I pass) I'm wanting to head south to EYE which lies about 6 miles from IND. I don't really want to try to remain under the shelf for Indy since the floor is 2100 and highest obstacle for that block is 2000.

My question is, what is the proper procedure for arriving and departing VFR to EYE and talking to IND? I am assuming that I would contact approach and ask to transition their airspace to EYE and then I could just follow instructions from there. However once on the ground, who do I contact to leave? Clearance or departure and what exactly do I tell them?

Thanks for the help.


Mike

IND is Class C, so you just need to establish 2-way radio communications with approach control, unless they tell you to remain outside Class C.  Unlike Class B airspace, Class C does not require a specific clearance to enter the airspace; In any case, to get to EYE you'd want to request flight following to Eagle Creek, using what Captray said earlier; who you are, where you are, current altitude, what you would like to do. Your aircraft will also need a transponder w/ altitude reporting.

EYE is an uncontrolled field, so ATC will tell you "change to advisory frequency approved", which, after you acknowledge ATC, gives you approval to switch to the Eagle Creek CTAF and begin monitoring traffic/announcing position and intentions to other traffic landing/departing EYE. You should utilize standard entry procedures for the traffic pattern at an uncontrolled field.

When you depart EYE again and wish to receive flight following, contact IND approach before you enter the Class C.

Again, to enter Class C, you just have to establish 2-way radio communications with ATC. Meaning, ATC must address you by tail number. If they say "aircraft calling, standby," that does NOT establish 2-way radio comms. If they say "remain outside of the Class C airspace," then you must obey.  In all likely-hood, they'll assign you a squawk code and give you flight instructions.

For Class B it's the same as Class C with the addition of a specific clearance to enter the Class B. ATC must say "cleared into the Class B." As a student pilot, you'll also need a specific endorsement from your flight instructor.  But, after your PPL checkride you're good.

Still, if you feel you need training after your checkride for Class C and Class B procedures, don't hesitate to contact your CFI for additional training.

Good luck on your ride and have fun!

-Tim
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 10:55:06 PM by tlernerlam »

Offline captray

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • G4 in Czech Republic
Re: Departing/Arriving under B and C shelves
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2010, 06:37:06 AM »
I should have stated that you must be cleared into the Class B. That not only includes a squawk code but also a heading and altitude to maintain.
Cancel the IFR~!

Offline cessna157

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 708
    • facebook
Re: Departing/Arriving under B and C shelves
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2010, 02:36:07 AM »
JMallard, have no worries.  The guys at IND are very used to pilots talking to them inbound to Eagle Creek.  Coming from the north, you're not so much a threat to them.  I fly in from the SW, which requires me to cross right through their final approach corridor.  Sure, I can do it legally without talking to them.  But I do it as more of a courtesy to them, so they know exactly what I'm doing.

Inbound from the north:
When you're 25-30 miles out, call approach (if I remember correctly, I think they prefer 119.05 that way) and tell them you're VFR inbound to Eagle Creek.  No need to explain any further, they will throw a squawk code at you right there.  When you're probably less than 5 miles out, they'll give you the standard "Squawk VFR, frequency change approved" and you're all done.

When departing:
Sometimes you can reach CLD on the ground on 128.6, if you're on the right place on the field and you use your upper antenna.  If you can't get them on the ground, just take off (obviously if you depart 21, fly the pattern since you'll be pointed right at IND) and call approach when you're in the air if you want. 

If you're not already, when you fly into EYE, park at the Commander Service Center, and walk across the road to Ricks Boathouse.  Great restaurant on the lake with deck seating.
CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent

Offline jmallard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Departing/Arriving under B and C shelves
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2010, 11:54:04 AM »
Thanks a lot for everyone's help. I'm about a week an a half away from my checkride, so with a good performance, I'll be headed down to Eagle Creek soon!

Thanks again everyone!

Offline jmallard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Departing/Arriving under B and C shelves
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2010, 04:43:15 PM »
Thanks for everyone's help. I passed my checkride this past Wednesday and flew down to Eagle Creek to eat at Rick's cafe boatyard on Saturday.

Everything went exactly as you all said. Indy approach took care of me right up until I was ready to enter the pattern at EYE.  The one question I had was on the way back.  I couldn't get CD on the ground so once I got off, I contacted Indy approach again and told them who I was, where I was (departing EYE at 2 miles north - 1,600 climbing 3,000) and what I wanted (departure to the north west). The controller came back with a more-or-less "thanks for the call but what do you want?" I told her that I was just calling in case I clipped their airspace on the way out. She was happy with that, kept me squawking VFR, and threw out a traffic advisory or two "in case I was still listening."

Everything went smoothly and the controller was great, but my question was why was it almost surprising that I was calling Indy? I was pretty sure that I would have violate airspace otherwise so I know I needed to talk to someone since I didn't feel like dodging towers (and fireworks) at night at 2,000 ft. Was it my phrasing that was the issue or could it have just been a slow night and so there was no real separation issues? Like I said, the controller was wonderful and polite and we all got what we wanted, I just wanted to know if I should have done something different incase I do depart in a situation like that again when radio time is at a premium.

Thanks again for the help!


-Mike

Offline atcman23

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
Re: Departing/Arriving under B and C shelves
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2010, 09:18:22 AM »
I think she was confused because you told her what you were doing, but not what you wanted.  She had no strip on you in front of her so she wasn't expecting you to call.  She was probably expecting you to request VFR flight following.  You can give them all the information you gave her, just end it with "would like VFR flight following to (destination, fix, out of Class B airspace, etc.)."

But it was good that you called.
Mark Spencer

Offline jmallard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: Departing/Arriving under B and C shelves
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2010, 03:09:32 PM »
That makes sense and she actually asked if I wanted flight following. If I didn't want flight following, would it be more appropriate to ask to transition their airspace? Would that be a better indication as to what I'm wanting if I just wanted to climb through their airspace on the way out?

-Mike

Offline atcman23

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
Re: Departing/Arriving under B and C shelves
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2010, 05:18:39 AM »
Yeah that works too.  You can also say that you want flight following out of the Class B airspace... same thing.
Mark Spencer