LiveATC Discussion Forums
Air Traffic Monitoring => Listener Forum => Topic started by: dorishd on July 18, 2007, 03:38:39 PM
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Why are airtran flights identified as " citrus " . Could the word airtran get confusing or mixed-up with some other ATC terminology?
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Why are airtran flights identified as " citrus " . Could the word airtran get confusing or mixed-up with some other ATC terminology?
ATA's telephony is "AmTran" which could easily be confused with "AirTran." AirTran's previous telephony was "Critter" when they were still ValuJet so it never coincided with the airline name to begin with.
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OK, thanks, that makes sense.
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There are some airlines that don't use thier name as the callsign, e.g. British Airways is "Speedbird" and South African is "Springbok"
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I think they also went by "Manatee" for a short time during the acquisition by Valujet.
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I think they also went by "Manatee" for a short time during the acquisition by Valujet.
Definitely sounds familiar, JD.
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Shuttle America actually just changed their callsign from Shuttlecraft to Mercury due to confusion with Mesa's callsign of Air Shuttle.
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Shuttle America actually just changed their callsign from Shuttlecraft to Mercury due to confusion with Mesa's callsign of Air Shuttle.
Huh, I was wondering where Mercury came from all the sudden. How did they come up with that one?
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Shuttle America actually just changed their callsign from Shuttlecraft to Mercury due to confusion with Mesa's callsign of Air Shuttle.
Huh, I was wondering where Mercury came from all the sudden. How did they come up with that one?
I've wondered myself.
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Shuttlecraft (TCF) was going to be "Crossroads", but the FAA nixed it. I've heard they were afraid of confusion with crossing restrictions.
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I was gonna name my future airline JetOne, or Victor Airways "victor", but I guess I'll get a no from the FAA. :lol:
How has Delta got away with keeping "Delta"?
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there may also be times when the original callsign of an airline can't be used, because it could indicate that the defunct airline was back alive and well. Case in point, the 3 incarnations of National Airlines. First one used 'National', then went belly up. The name for the airline was bought by another entity, in which 'SunKing' came out (like the logo on the tail of their DC10s). Then they went belly up. Then the Rio/Harrah's, and Michael Conway bought the name, and used 'Redrock' for its callsign (the airline was based in Vegas; a scenic tourist trap called Redrock Canyon is about 15 miles NE of the airport).
So it could also depend on the history of the airline as well.
BL.
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At ATL (Delta's major hub) they refer to taxiways and gates as "Dixie" instead of delta. Even at other airports you will hear Delta flights check in with ATIS information "dixie" or tell ground they park at gate "dixie 8".
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At ATL (Delta's major hub) they refer to taxiways and gates as "Dixie" instead of delta. Even at other airports you will hear Delta flights check in with ATIS information "dixie" or tell ground they park at gate "dixie 8".
I knew they did that. But, still, how does that make it any different than "crossroads"? Why won't they be nice and ask ATC to start calling crossing restrictions "transverse restrictions"? This may seem frivolous. Why is Delta so special that they can make exceptions?
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At ATL (Delta's major hub) they refer to taxiways and gates as "Dixie" instead of delta. Even at other airports you will hear Delta flights check in with ATIS information "dixie" or tell ground they park at gate "dixie 8".
I knew they did that. But, still, how does that make it any different than "crossroads"? Why won't they be nice and ask ATC to start calling crossing restrictions "transverse restrictions"? This may seem frivolous. Why is Delta so special that they can make exceptions?
I don't think it has to do with any crossing restrictions or anything like that, but that they could confuse the intersection of a taxiway with the callsign of the aircraft. It would be hard to deal with Delta 8 coming out to taxi short of D16 when you have a Delta 60 taxiing inbound to gate D5 but turning into the ramp at D6.
See the confusion? Plus, I think that that only happens at their hubs. I heard them doing that at DFW on pre-LiveATC feeds when DAL had a hub there.
BL.
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At ATL (Delta's major hub) they refer to taxiways and gates as "Dixie" instead of delta. Even at other airports you will hear Delta flights check in with ATIS information "dixie" or tell ground they park at gate "dixie 8".
I knew they did that. But, still, how does that make it any different than "crossroads"? Why won't they be nice and ask ATC to start calling crossing restrictions "transverse restrictions"? This may seem frivolous. Why is Delta so special that they can make exceptions?
I don't think it has to do with any crossing restrictions or anything like that, but that they could confuse the intersection of a taxiway with the callsign of the aircraft. It would be hard to deal with Delta 8 coming out to taxi short of D16 when you have a Delta 60 taxiing inbound to gate D5 but turning into the ramp at D6.
See the confusion? Plus, I think that that only happens at their hubs. I heard them doing that at DFW on pre-LiveATC feeds when DAL had a hub there.
BL.
I think you just merged the ideas of two different parts of the same topic
1. Delta being confused with taxiways/gates
2. Crossroads being confused with crossing restrictions.
Sounded like you put both of those together and said they didn't relate.. Which Delta wasn't meant to relate to crossing restrictions.
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I think you just merged the ideas of two different parts of the same topic
1. Delta being confused with taxiways/gates
2. Crossroads being confused with crossing restrictions.
Sounded like you put both of those together and said they didn't relate.. Which Delta wasn't meant to relate to crossing restrictions.
I see what you mean now. I was thinking of crossing restrictions as restrictions for crossing an intersection, like KADDY or LUXOR, or ITAWA or the like, not anything on the ground. But yeah, you get what I was meaning. :)
BL.
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America West goes by Cactus. I hear a lot of that here in AZ
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America West goes by Cactus. I hear a lot of that here in AZ
they have for ages, and mostly not to be confused with American.
Also, IIRC, Canada 3000 and Air canada had a similar problem, where if they went by the name of the airline, confusion would be all over. So Air Canada went by Air Canada, and Canada 3000 went by "Elite".
BL.
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America West goes by Cactus. I hear a lot of that here in AZ
they have for ages, and mostly not to be confused with American.
Also, IIRC, Canada 3000 and Air canada had a similar problem, where if they went by the name of the airline, confusion would be all over. So Air Canada went by Air Canada, and Canada 3000 went by "Elite".
BL.
And they went to Cactus because they didn't want to be confused with Southwest. Cuz Southwest calls themselves "Southwest" America West can almost sound the same on the radio
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[sarcasm]Hopefully this name problem wasn't a cause for their decision to absorb US Air and change the name to US Airways.[/sarcasm]
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[sarcasm]Hopefully this name problem wasn't a cause for their decision to absorb US Air and change the name to US Airways.[/sarcasm]
Good one! :)
I think they may be going the other way around, as they were supposed to have nixed the Cactus callsign earlier this year. They may be keeping both. I know a pilot and a guy working ramp for them, so I'll ask them what the deal will now be with the callsign. They have had both for ages, so I don't know which one they'll keep, or use one for int'l (read: transatlantic) flights, and one for domestic (read: N. America/Mexico) flights.
BL.
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The callsign will be going to Cactus when the operating certificates are suppose to merge in "September" which they've been giving us different dates for over a year now. Pretty dumb if you ask me, you keep the name of the company US Airways because it's a known entity and represents the country as a whole rather than America West one standing for one part of the country. But then you change the callsign from USAir to Cactus... Last time I checked we don't know Cacti in Philly.
Here's a great example, when the MidWest - AirTran merger is finalized. It would be like the company operating under the AirTran name and not really representing one part of the country. But changing their callsign to MidEx.
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The callsign will be going to Cactus when the operating certificates are suppose to merge in "September" which they've been giving us different dates for over a year now. Pretty dumb if you ask me, you keep the name of the company US Airways because it's a known entity and represents the country as a whole rather than America West one standing for one part of the country. But then you change the callsign from USAir to Cactus... Last time I checked we don't know Cacti in Philly.
Did AWE nix all of their PHL routes? I remember flying on them directly from PHX and LAS on an A320 approx. 5 years ago; Same thing with them to BOS, IAD, and ATL. They also had their hub at CMH until they pulled the hub out (there is still service to there).
BL.
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The callsign will be going to Cactus when the operating certificates are suppose to merge in "September" which they've been giving us different dates for over a year now. Pretty dumb if you ask me, you keep the name of the company US Airways because it's a known entity and represents the country as a whole rather than America West one standing for one part of the country. But then you change the callsign from USAir to Cactus... Last time I checked we don't know Cacti in Philly.
Did AWE nix all of their PHL routes? I remember flying on them directly from PHX and LAS on an A320 approx. 5 years ago; Same thing with them to BOS, IAD, and ATL. They also had their hub at CMH until they pulled the hub out (there is still service to there).
BL.
No they've actually added some. We've got LAS, PHX, PDX, SEA, SFO, ATL, SAN, and DEN. Same goes for CLT, they just started flying like PBI, SAN as I'm sure other stuff. The sheer amount of west birds that RON is absolutely amazing. To see like 5 parked all at B Con at night is pretty cool. To bad there is only a handful of 320's left in the old colors. The nicest part about all the increased service is that a few special liveries cycle through every week. We had Arizona, Arizona Cardinals and what I like to call Jurrasic Park (80's Livery) all came in on the same day. :-D
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[sarcasm]Hopefully this name problem wasn't a cause for their decision to absorb US Air and change the name to US Airways.[/sarcasm]
Could it also be that the Cactus and US Air planes have different liveries still? It'd make it easier for other airliners to understand ATC controls when they get sequenced behind a "USAir" painted like a USAir than like a "Cactus", and vice verse. (Kind of like you still hear pilots told to follow the Song colors).
As with Delta, I agree that history as something to do with it:
They've been around since 1928 (thanks wikipedia), so they were probably calling themselves "Delta" over the radio long before the IATA formed the first form of the military alphabet we know today (proposed on 1951, implemented in 1956, universally used by 1959, thanks again wikipedia). Plus who knows when airports got so complicated and busy that specific taxiway instructions needed to be given on the ground using alpha, bravo, charlie, delta, etc.? (someone write a wiki if you know :) ...)
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New to the forum. I fly for Shuttle America.
ShuttleCraft had to go because certain Centers (not to name names...Washington) were ofter dropping the "Craft" for us and the the "Air" in Air Shuttle (Mesa) and just calling us both Shuttle...caused some confusion.
Crossroads was next and was the offical callsign for about 36 hours but was recalled due to confusion with "Cross XXXXX at FL230".
Mercury was chosen by our director of operations becuase he is a big amateur astronomy buff and the FAA wouldn't approve Apollo so he went with Mercury.
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not a big fan....now it sounds too much like "American."
Also, has anyone noticed Gateway (GJS) has changed to "Lindburgh" because it was apparently being confused with "Getaway." Again, not a fan.
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What airline is called "Company".
Thanks Ron
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What airline is called "Company".
Thanks Ron
the same company as the airline ATC is talking to. It's referring to the same company as aircraft in question. E.g., Southwest jet told to look for another Southwest jet.
BL.
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Thanks BL