Author Topic: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?  (Read 19847 times)

Offline dorishd

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Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« on: July 18, 2007, 03:38:39 PM »
Why are airtran flights identified as  " citrus " .  Could the word airtran get confusing or mixed-up with some other ATC terminology?



Offline Jason

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2007, 03:47:06 PM »
Why are airtran flights identified as  " citrus " .  Could the word airtran get confusing or mixed-up with some other ATC terminology?

ATA's telephony is "AmTran" which could easily be confused with "AirTran."  AirTran's previous telephony was "Critter" when they were still ValuJet so it never coincided with the airline name to begin with.

Offline dorishd

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2007, 04:04:51 PM »

OK, thanks, that makes sense.

Offline The Hoffspatcher

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2007, 08:58:24 PM »
There are some airlines that don't use thier name as the callsign, e.g. British Airways is "Speedbird" and South African is "Springbok"
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Offline davolijj

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2007, 09:05:22 PM »
I think they also went by "Manatee" for a short time during the acquisition by Valujet.
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Offline Jason

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2007, 09:49:25 PM »
I think they also went by "Manatee" for a short time during the acquisition by Valujet.

Definitely sounds familiar, JD.

Offline PHL Approach

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2007, 09:52:44 PM »
Shuttle America actually just changed their callsign from Shuttlecraft to Mercury due to confusion with Mesa's callsign of Air Shuttle.

Offline KMSY

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2007, 10:08:01 PM »
Shuttle America actually just changed their callsign from Shuttlecraft to Mercury due to confusion with Mesa's callsign of Air Shuttle.

Huh, I was wondering where Mercury came from all the sudden. How did they come up with that one?

Offline PHL Approach

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2007, 10:46:04 PM »
Shuttle America actually just changed their callsign from Shuttlecraft to Mercury due to confusion with Mesa's callsign of Air Shuttle.

Huh, I was wondering where Mercury came from all the sudden. How did they come up with that one?

I've wondered myself.

Offline rpd

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2007, 11:05:23 PM »
Shuttlecraft (TCF) was going to be "Crossroads", but the FAA nixed it.  I've heard they were afraid of confusion with crossing restrictions.

Offline KMSY

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2007, 11:22:37 PM »
I was gonna name my future airline JetOne, or Victor Airways "victor", but I guess I'll get a no from the FAA.  :lol:

How has Delta got away with keeping "Delta"?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2007, 11:24:13 PM by KMSY »

Offline tyketto

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2007, 02:35:57 AM »
there may also be times when the original callsign of an airline can't be used, because it could indicate that the defunct airline was back alive and well. Case in point, the 3 incarnations of National Airlines. First one used 'National', then went belly up. The name for the airline was bought by another entity, in which 'SunKing' came out (like the logo on the tail of their DC10s). Then they went belly up. Then the Rio/Harrah's, and Michael Conway bought the name, and used 'Redrock' for its callsign (the airline was based in Vegas; a scenic tourist trap called Redrock Canyon is about 15 miles NE of the airport).

So it could also depend on the history of the airline as well.

BL.

Offline rpd

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2007, 10:08:36 AM »
At ATL (Delta's major hub) they refer to taxiways and gates as "Dixie" instead of delta.  Even at other airports you will hear Delta flights check in with ATIS information "dixie" or tell ground they park at gate "dixie 8".










Offline KMSY

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2007, 11:26:43 AM »
At ATL (Delta's major hub) they refer to taxiways and gates as "Dixie" instead of delta.  Even at other airports you will hear Delta flights check in with ATIS information "dixie" or tell ground they park at gate "dixie 8".

I knew they did that. But, still, how does that make it any different than "crossroads"? Why won't they be nice and ask ATC to start calling crossing restrictions "transverse restrictions"? This may seem frivolous. Why is Delta so special that they can make exceptions?

Offline tyketto

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2007, 01:46:38 PM »
At ATL (Delta's major hub) they refer to taxiways and gates as "Dixie" instead of delta.  Even at other airports you will hear Delta flights check in with ATIS information "dixie" or tell ground they park at gate "dixie 8".

I knew they did that. But, still, how does that make it any different than "crossroads"? Why won't they be nice and ask ATC to start calling crossing restrictions "transverse restrictions"? This may seem frivolous. Why is Delta so special that they can make exceptions?


I don't think it has to do with any crossing restrictions or anything like that, but that they could confuse the intersection of a taxiway with the callsign of the aircraft. It would be hard to deal with Delta 8 coming out to taxi short of D16 when you have a Delta 60 taxiing inbound to gate D5 but turning into the ramp at D6.

See the confusion? Plus, I think that that only happens at their hubs. I heard them doing that at DFW on pre-LiveATC feeds when DAL had a hub there.

BL.

Offline PHL Approach

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2007, 12:03:55 AM »
At ATL (Delta's major hub) they refer to taxiways and gates as "Dixie" instead of delta.  Even at other airports you will hear Delta flights check in with ATIS information "dixie" or tell ground they park at gate "dixie 8".

I knew they did that. But, still, how does that make it any different than "crossroads"? Why won't they be nice and ask ATC to start calling crossing restrictions "transverse restrictions"? This may seem frivolous. Why is Delta so special that they can make exceptions?


I don't think it has to do with any crossing restrictions or anything like that, but that they could confuse the intersection of a taxiway with the callsign of the aircraft. It would be hard to deal with Delta 8 coming out to taxi short of D16 when you have a Delta 60 taxiing inbound to gate D5 but turning into the ramp at D6.

See the confusion? Plus, I think that that only happens at their hubs. I heard them doing that at DFW on pre-LiveATC feeds when DAL had a hub there.

BL.


I think you just merged the ideas of two different parts of the same topic

1. Delta being confused with taxiways/gates
2. Crossroads being confused with crossing restrictions.

Sounded like you put both of those together and said they didn't relate.. Which Delta wasn't meant to relate to crossing restrictions.

Offline tyketto

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2007, 01:56:28 PM »

I think you just merged the ideas of two different parts of the same topic

1. Delta being confused with taxiways/gates
2. Crossroads being confused with crossing restrictions.

Sounded like you put both of those together and said they didn't relate.. Which Delta wasn't meant to relate to crossing restrictions.

I see what you mean now. I was thinking of crossing restrictions as restrictions for crossing an intersection, like KADDY or LUXOR, or ITAWA or the like, not anything on the ground. But yeah, you get what I was meaning. :)

BL.

Offline kaktak1

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2007, 12:10:54 PM »
America West goes by Cactus.  I hear a lot of that here in AZ
If black boxes survive air crashes — why don't they make the whole plane out of that stuff?

Offline tyketto

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2007, 12:49:23 PM »
America West goes by Cactus.  I hear a lot of that here in AZ

they have for ages, and mostly not to be confused with American.

Also, IIRC, Canada 3000 and Air canada had a similar problem, where if they went by the name of the airline, confusion would be all over. So Air Canada went by Air Canada, and Canada 3000 went by "Elite".

BL.

Offline kaktak1

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2007, 12:43:03 PM »
America West goes by Cactus.  I hear a lot of that here in AZ

they have for ages, and mostly not to be confused with American.

Also, IIRC, Canada 3000 and Air canada had a similar problem, where if they went by the name of the airline, confusion would be all over. So Air Canada went by Air Canada, and Canada 3000 went by "Elite".

BL.


And they went to Cactus because they didn't want to be confused with Southwest.  Cuz Southwest calls themselves "Southwest"  America West can almost sound the same on the radio
If black boxes survive air crashes — why don't they make the whole plane out of that stuff?

Offline KMSY

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2007, 12:44:46 PM »
[sarcasm]Hopefully this name problem wasn't a cause for their decision to absorb US Air and change the name to US Airways.[/sarcasm]

Offline tyketto

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2007, 12:53:56 PM »
[sarcasm]Hopefully this name problem wasn't a cause for their decision to absorb US Air and change the name to US Airways.[/sarcasm]

Good one! :)

I think they may be going the other way around, as they were supposed to have nixed the Cactus callsign earlier this year. They may be keeping both. I know a pilot and a guy working ramp for them, so I'll ask them what the deal will now be with the callsign. They have had both for ages, so I don't know which one they'll keep, or use one for int'l (read: transatlantic) flights, and one for domestic (read: N. America/Mexico) flights.

BL.

Offline PHL Approach

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2007, 02:59:54 PM »
The callsign will be going to Cactus when the operating certificates are suppose to merge in "September" which they've been giving us different dates for over a year now. Pretty dumb if you ask me, you keep the name of the company US Airways because it's a known entity and represents the country as a whole rather than America West one standing for one part of the country. But then you change the callsign from USAir to Cactus... Last time I checked we don't know Cacti in Philly.

Here's a great example, when the MidWest - AirTran merger is finalized. It would be like the company operating under the AirTran name and not really representing one part of the country. But changing their callsign to MidEx.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2007, 03:02:42 PM by PHL Approach »

Offline tyketto

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2007, 03:11:00 PM »
The callsign will be going to Cactus when the operating certificates are suppose to merge in "September" which they've been giving us different dates for over a year now. Pretty dumb if you ask me, you keep the name of the company US Airways because it's a known entity and represents the country as a whole rather than America West one standing for one part of the country. But then you change the callsign from USAir to Cactus... Last time I checked we don't know Cacti in Philly.

Did AWE nix all of their PHL routes? I remember flying on them directly from PHX and LAS on an A320 approx. 5 years ago; Same thing with them to BOS, IAD, and ATL. They also had their hub at CMH until they pulled the hub out (there is still service to there).

BL.

Offline PHL Approach

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Re: Why Citrus and not Airtran ?
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2007, 03:45:39 PM »
The callsign will be going to Cactus when the operating certificates are suppose to merge in "September" which they've been giving us different dates for over a year now. Pretty dumb if you ask me, you keep the name of the company US Airways because it's a known entity and represents the country as a whole rather than America West one standing for one part of the country. But then you change the callsign from USAir to Cactus... Last time I checked we don't know Cacti in Philly.

Did AWE nix all of their PHL routes? I remember flying on them directly from PHX and LAS on an A320 approx. 5 years ago; Same thing with them to BOS, IAD, and ATL. They also had their hub at CMH until they pulled the hub out (there is still service to there).

BL.


No they've actually added some. We've got LAS, PHX, PDX, SEA, SFO, ATL, SAN, and DEN. Same goes for CLT, they just started flying like PBI, SAN as I'm sure other stuff. The sheer amount of west birds that RON is absolutely amazing. To see like 5 parked all at B Con at night is pretty cool. To bad there is only a handful of 320's left in the old colors. The nicest part about all the increased service is that a few special liveries cycle through every week. We had Arizona, Arizona Cardinals and what I like to call Jurrasic Park (80's Livery) all came in on the same day. :-D