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Air Traffic Monitoring => Listener Forum => Topic started by: chefnoel on March 26, 2008, 10:40:54 PM

Title: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: chefnoel on March 26, 2008, 10:40:54 PM
A friend of mine has a young son (21 ish) that is uncertain about what profession he should pursue.   I suggested Air Traffic Controller.  He lives near New Berne, North Carolina.  Are there any schools in that area or where else are there schools.

Thanks all for your assistance.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: NAplaya16-ATC on March 27, 2008, 12:58:43 AM
heres all the ATC-CTI (collegiate training initaitive) schools:

University of Alaska Anchorage - Alaska
Mt. San Antonio College - California
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University - Florida
Miami-Dade College - Florida
Purdue University - Indiana
Minneapolis Community & Technical College - Minnesota
Daniel Webster College - New Hampshire
Vaughn College - New York
Dowling College - New York
University of North Dakota
Community College of Beaver County - Pennsylvania
Inter American University of Puerto Rico
Middle Tennessee State University
Hampton University - Virginia

Some of the best of those are North Dakota, Beaver County, Alaska, and Purdue

Personally, i am currently an ATC student at Beaver County and i love it here! 

I think it all depends on what they want to do, if they just want to get an associates degree in ATC, or if they would rather go to a 4 year program and get a bachelors degree in a different field like Aviation management, airport management, etc with an ATC minor.   

here is my email, NAplaya16@comcast.net, if you or your friends son has any questions!

-NAplaya
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: MathFox on March 27, 2008, 10:16:26 AM
A friend of mine has a young son (21 ish) that is uncertain about what profession he should pursue.   I suggested Air Traffic Controller.
Does he have the capabilities and the motivation? The quickest and cheapest way into ATC is applying directly with the FAA.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: tyketto on March 27, 2008, 01:43:23 PM
Doesn't ERAU in Prescott, AZ also have the ATC course, or is it only in Daytona?

BL.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: NAplaya16-ATC on March 27, 2008, 07:08:12 PM
Im not sure bout the Prescott branch, but i do know that they have some sort of branch at Miami Intl.  i visited Miami-Dade and on the entry there is a sign that reads "Embry Riddle Aeronautical School."   I know they have one in Daytona, but whatever this branch is, its at Miami Intl Airport.

-NAplaya
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: ATCWanAaB on March 27, 2008, 07:41:39 PM
I am a ATC Major at ERAU right now. The Prescott campus does not currently have an ATC program, but they are pursuing it heavily right now. I think they will have one soon.

Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: mk on March 27, 2008, 10:27:13 PM
although ERAU is probably one of the most expensive options to becoming an Air Traffic Controller, i would highly, highly, HIGHLY recommend Riddle.  One of the few schools where you can get a 4 year degree from a well known aeronautical school.  Given, FAA doesn't care, but if you wash out, or want to become faa management one day, a degree from ERAU in Air Traffic Management wouldn't hurt your chances if you know what i mean.  The classes are pretty competitive, and the instructors do well getting their students to try to be the best.  ERAU, UND, Beaver CC, and one i am drawing a blank on are the best in the business.  Riddle won't even send your name or info to the faa if you can't swing a B average.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: ATCWanAaB on March 28, 2008, 12:11:55 AM
Well actually, Riddle will send your name to the FAA if you complete the program with a C average or better. But that is really beside the point. Riddle, along with UND, have state of the art simulators and the best professors. I have heard fantastic things about the Beaver County program. I guess the get you in a real tower working traffic. Not sure how their EnRoute and Tracon sims are.

My experiences at Riddle have been great. 
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: cactushp on March 28, 2008, 12:36:09 AM
You also have to consider the new CTI schools that have recently been certified. Arizona State University, for example, already has a highly established professional pilot program at Phoenix-Mesa Gateway (IWA), and their Air Traffic Management program is at the same location. Also ATM students at ASU get to go at an internship at the P50 TRACON/PHX ATCT to fulfill their internship requirement.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: moto400ex on March 28, 2008, 01:08:55 AM
UND is as voted by several ATC supervisors and managers the best school.  Im sure ERAU is not far behind.
I can personally tell you the equipment and instructors at UND are top notch and come from several different ATC backgrounds.  Plus, its half the price of attending ERAU.  Biggest downside, LOCATION.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: NAplaya16-ATC on March 28, 2008, 02:33:51 AM
ATCWanaab,

you are correct! students at beaver graduate in 1 year, by going straight through.  (fall to fall, spring to spring, summer to summer, winter to winter, all with good break times too).  students get to go up into the tower at beaver county airport (kbvi) and work real traffic during their final 2 semesters.   im only a 2nd semester, so im counting down the days till i get up in the tower next semester.

however, the simulators at beaver are good training sims, but they are old!  their tracon sims amd enroute sims are dated back to 1990-1991, so id easily lay money down saying that UND, Riddle, and whoever else prolly has better, more modern ones.   however, beaver is supposed to be updating all their equi[ment within the next year, so hopefully, the new stuff will be 10x better!

-NAplaya
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: mk on March 28, 2008, 11:31:42 AM
Riddle must have changed the policy then. i graduated back in fall '04 and you had to have carred a 3.0 gpa through the ATM courses.   

it would be cool if riddle or other cti schools had a tower like beaver.  i work with several BVI students and everyone matches up just fine with the huge schools like UND and ERAU.   however, 2 of them have washed out before making it to the floor b/c they thought they were better than the rest of us b/c they had a "cto" from a real tower.    i've met so many cti's over the past 2 years and it seems to me it doesn't matter where you go, just learn what you can, and the faa will level the playing field one you get the job. 
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: davolijj on March 28, 2008, 01:14:29 PM
however, the simulators at beaver are good training sims, but they are old!  their tracon sims amd enroute sims are dated back to 1990-1991, so id easily lay money down saying that UND, Riddle, and whoever else prolly has better, more modern ones.   however, beaver is supposed to be updating all their equi[ment within the next year, so hopefully, the new stuff will be 10x better!

I'd agree with you about the Approach Control Lab at Beaver, it's old, runs on Windows 3.xx on 486 desktops.  When I was there we couldn't even find computers to use to backup the hardware.  However it does a very good jub of simulating ARTS-3a and the interface among sectors in the lab is something newer software is still trying to duplicate.

The EnRoute lab is brand new (2004) and is the exact same system Embry Riddle uses for their EnRoute lab, made by Adacel.  It sucks.  I believe the software was written by people with very little operational experience and it does a poor job of simulating DSR.  The administration there had buyer's remorse about a week after it was installed.

Last I heard Beaver was in the process of taking bids on a complete new equipment upgrade for every option in the program.  It will have a 270 degree tower sim (for those IFR days in the tower), and Enroute/approach sims which are much more realistic than what is currently being used.

Riddle must have changed the policy then. i graduated back in fall '04 and you had to have carred a 3.0 gpa through the ATM courses.  

it would be cool if riddle or other cti schools had a tower like beaver.  i work with several BVI students and everyone matches up just fine with the huge schools like UND and ERAU.   however, 2 of them have washed out before making it to the floor b/c they thought they were better than the rest of us b/c they had a "cto" from a real tower.    i've met so many cti's over the past 2 years and it seems to me it doesn't matter where you go, just learn what you can, and the faa will level the playing field one you get the job. 

I don't believe any simulator can or will ever measure up to the kind of training you get at a real VFR tower.  Basic fundamentals such as clearances and aircraft recognition are such an important part of working in the tower that students are forced to learn and retain this information, unlike just learning it for a test.  Students also get the real experience of talking over the frequency, active listening, thinking on the fly, and coordinating with an FAA approach control facility.  It's not easy, and during my time there the washout rate in the tower was 15-20%, so ideally Beaver grads have already been screened and should be less likely to wash out of FAA facilities.  Every semester however, some always seem to slip through the cracks and my guess is the ones who washed out of your facility shouldn't have made it through Beaver.

And by the way, Beaver DOES require a 3.0 in the facility rating classes to be recommended for CTI.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: sdbpilot on March 28, 2008, 06:17:25 PM
I personally go to Daniel Webster College in NH. I am not an ATC major personally but I have many friends in the program and they say that they really like it. The majority of them are getting send to Oklahoma right after graduation. The best thing to do is tour the school to see if the area meets what you want out of a college experience. But, if you are going on education and hands on learning only then I think DWC is a great choice. Here is an article with more info on the program.

http://www.dwc.edu/news/2007-2008/ATC.shtml
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: ATCWanAaB on March 28, 2008, 06:53:06 PM
I wish Riddle had a stricter requirement to be recommended. 3.0 or 3.2 would be better. I don't keep myself fully up to date on the names of the companies that have made our sims, but Riddle just got a new EnRoute Sim a year ago. So I don't know if it is still Adacel.

I think Riddles new EnRoute Sim is awesome. (Not that I would know how good it is.) But the 2 guys from ZDC that are working in that sim with us say they like it. (But they might just be saying that.)

What I do know is that it is that we are working Memphis Center Sector 66, which is the same sector you work at OAK. This is a huge advantage.

Are other schools using that sector in their EnRoute classes?
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: davolijj on March 28, 2008, 09:28:44 PM
I wish Riddle had a stricter requirement to be recommended. 3.0 or 3.2 would be better. I don't keep myself fully up to date on the names of the companies that have made our sims, but Riddle just got a new EnRoute Sim a year ago. So I don't know if it is still Adacel.

I think Riddles new EnRoute Sim is awesome. (Not that I would know how good it is.) But the 2 guys from ZDC that are working in that sim with us say they like it. (But they might just be saying that.)

What I do know is that it is that we are working Memphis Center Sector 66, which is the same sector you work at OAK. This is a huge advantage.

Are other schools using that sector in their EnRoute classes?

My understanding is that Riddle got their Adacel system in 2003.  And yes, Beaver also uses JAN-LO, Sector 66 for both non-radar and Radar Associate.

Why are there 2 guys from ZDC in yor class at Riddle?  I'm assuming they're not controllers, Remote Pilot Operators, maybe?  Take RPO opinions with a grain assault, they have the illusion of having knowledge of center ops but they have DySim experience only.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: NAplaya16-ATC on March 28, 2008, 10:31:48 PM
All i know is that beaver needs to update their approach control lab sims.   im not familiar with their enroute sims, just because im in training for terminal.

Whats the curriculum at these other CTI schools?

Beaver's curriculum format goes like this:

*This is for Terminal ATC's*

1st semester:  16-17 Credits
English Composition 1
Social Science Elective
College Algebra or Physical Science
Flight Theory
Aeronautical Knowledge
Private Pilot (they make all their ATC's earn their Private license during this semester)

*If students already come into the program with their private license, they dont have to take Flight theory, aeronautical knowledge or the whole private pilot training, so basically, students who already have their license are admitted as 2nd semester students)   (they call it a "Quick Start")

2nd semester:  (17 credits)
English Comp 2
Social Science Elective
Advanced ATC III
Aviation Meteorology
Theory of Instrument Flight

3rd semester:  (16 credits)
Facility Rating I
Approach Control I
Logic
Social Science Elective

*During this semester, terminal students get to go into the tower and work flight data and ground only*

4th semester:  (13 credits)
Facility Rating II
Approach Control II
Introduction to Information Technology or ATC Interniship

*During this semester, students get to work local control*

For Enroute students, their curriculum is pretty much the same, except that in 3rd semester, they'll take Non-Radar Lecture and Non-Radar Lab.  And in their 4th semester, they take Radar Lecture and Radar Lab.

-NAplaya
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: ATCWanAaB on April 01, 2008, 12:33:20 AM
The two guys from ZDC are former controller. They are NOT our teachers because they do not meet the state accreditation standards to be professors. But they basically teach the class. They are not "In our class". 
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: DairyCreamer on April 01, 2008, 03:01:24 AM
Take it from me.

DO NOT BLOW YOUR $$$ ON A CTI EDUCATION IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO

Right now, unless you're just getting out of high school and know 100% for dam|\| sure you want to be a controller, don't bother with the CTI route.  Go to college if you want to get a degree, but keep the ATC thing to a minor at most.  There will be more public openings before too long, certainly sooner than the average CTI degree would allow.

Riddle is a joke for its expenses.  If anyone wants to go there and spend $100k there, get a REAL aviation degree with a minor in ATC.  Don't go in with all your eggs in the ATC basket, that's absolutely foolish considering the state of the FAA right now.

Remember... a check in the box from a CTI program can cost you tens of thousands of dollars, but in the FAA's eyes, it only allows you to skip 5 weeks of paid basics training at OKC, which frankly a lot of CTI students would do well to take as a refresher anyway.  With as desperate as the FAA is for people, in the forseeable future, OTS and CTI hires have nearly an equal ~100% chance of getting an interview.

~Nate

NOTE - Not dispariaging the educational qualities of CTI programs, indeed, I was ready to enter one myself.  But seriously, don't bother with the whole CTI thing if you're just looking to get hired by the FAA.  Do it for the "greater good," i.e., backup in case you can't or don't want to do ATC for 20-25+ years as a career.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: FlySafe on April 03, 2008, 05:28:52 PM
Ditto, DairyCreamer..

I have 3 VRAs, 2 CTIs, 1 FSS transfer and one off the street (no experience) at my facility.  There really is no difference in "advantage" with CTIs, they have "some" experience but much has to be unlearned, you do have a majority of your meager paycheck going to pay student loans.  Do the math...

VRAs are getting compensation (Veterans Benefits) to attend OKC and complete OJT.  Best bet, if you are going to invest 3-4 years, join the AF or Navy get ACT experience and use you veterans preference.  You get paid to train in the military, and paid to train in the FAA.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: AirK on April 16, 2008, 01:46:06 AM
quick question, i was going to attend riddle in daytona as a new student for the summer a term (may). i made the choice of wanting to go there because a lot of the people i talked to said i would end up paying the same amount of money if i moved out to go to school somewhere else (i live 20mins from daytona). im also going to be a 'transfer student' dropping the amount of credits needed from 120 to just 90. even with that though, im sure i would still be paying a fortune.

ive been hearing a lot about "off the street" trainees lately and i was wondering how i can get more info on this? if it saves me the trip / money of going to school (especially riddle) then i would personally rather do this. because if everyone ends up getting the faa training at the Oklahoma  facility (whether you went to school or not) then whats the point?
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: Canadian eh on April 16, 2008, 05:18:52 AM
wow a 100k for your education? what can i say, move to canada. $214 to write the test and if your good enough you'll get a interview, get through that and be put on a waiting list to start training, your name stays on it for 2 years. the list always grows and they only take to top from the list. everytime they run a course at one of the acc's across canda they start at the top of the list and offer spots til they are full.
if you apply for IFR control, you pay $3500 and that pays for all books and materials, you have to move to whichever city the acc's your starting at is located. you pay for all living costs and your course lasts from anywhere between 8-13 months until you go on payrol($33700 training wage) and start on the job training that lasts 6-12 months. it's 8 hours a day and your lucky to get anything more than stat days off(eg. i started 18 months ago, was off for 10 days at xmas a month into the course and since then have had one strech of 7 days off in a row. we don't take days off while training, ever.) after checking out you start at $80k-82k (just went up at the start of the month from $79k) and depending which center you work out of you get a bonus of up to a max of $18k because of traffic volume.
vfr control, you pay $3500 and they send you to school in cornwall, ON. they pay room and board, all books and materials and then move you out to where ever your getting stationed for your paid on the job. salsry? can't remember but it's between a ifr and fss. just a geuss from memory but think it starts around 50 or 60k
fss (flight service) $2500 or $3500 and same as vfr, go to ON< they pay room and board , all books and materials until the move you out for paid on the job. think it starts around 35k.
i think that sounds better than paying through the nose in the states. just a fun fact for you all, until about 4 or 5 years ago they use to send all trainies to cornwall and you paid $3500. they paid for your move there, room and board, all books and material, ship your car out there if you wanted, fly you out there and to top it off the paid all trainies $50k a year to train right from the get go.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: AirK on April 16, 2008, 09:55:12 AM
hey skip, any links to point us to the right direction? my google skills are horrible :-P

*edit* is www.navcanada.com what you're talking about?
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: Canadian eh on April 17, 2008, 11:40:22 AM
heres the site http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.asp?Language=en&Content=ContentDefinitionFiles/default.xml
then on the right side is careers. a company called SHL is on contract for our recruitment until aug of this year and then it looks like we will do our own. if that link don't work let me know.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: ATCWanAaB on April 17, 2008, 12:36:52 PM
AirK, I encourage you to thoroughly research "off the street" possibilities for becoming a controller. I know of two people personally who are taking that route.  If you go to:

 1) http://Jobs.Faa.Gov

 2) click on "All Opportunities"

 3) Where is says "Open to" select "non-Federal employees"

 4)  Where is says "Series" select "2153"

 5) hit "Search"

A few hits come up...

The one that has "CTO" in it is for people who already have Control Tower Operating certificates.

The one that has "RMC" in it is for Retired Military Controllers.

The one that says "CTI" is for students who have graduated from a Collegiate Training Initiative school such as Riddle.

The one that says "PUBNAT2" is for the general public like you. If I am not mistaken, just apply. But you have to meet either the "Work requirements" or the "Education requirements" which you can read about if you click on that link. I'm going to venture a guess and say that you have yet to meet either of those requirements, but I could be wrong. 

VRA means "Veteran Readjustment Appointment"


All these are called "advertisements" and they are not always there. For the longest time, there was NO PUBNAT advertisement showing, meaning that "off the street" people could not even apply. This particular one is only open until May 2. Apply now because who knows how long it will be till another advertisement is posted.


By the way, I love Riddle. Sure the money sucks but the education is great (as I'm sure UND and Beaver and all those others are too).

Peace
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: NWA ARJ on April 17, 2008, 03:12:10 PM
UND is the best school hands down. If you want to know why send me a message and I will tell you.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: AirK on April 18, 2008, 12:06:15 AM
...
Hey thanks for taking the time to go through that. I went ahead and applied even though I'm enrolled at Embry Riddle. I figure I would just go ahead and do both and see what happens. Its just too bad that the close out day is close to the day that I start school.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: ATCWanAaB on April 18, 2008, 06:34:52 PM
Did you meet either the 3 year work requirement or the 4 year college degree requirement? Just curious because applying would be useless if you have not met either of them.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: PHL Approach on April 18, 2008, 07:12:03 PM
Did you meet either the 3 year work requirement or the 4 year college degree requirement? Just curious because applying would be useless if you have not met either of them.

Or a combination of work experience and semester credits.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: AirK on April 18, 2008, 10:46:04 PM
I have about 70 credits from a community college I went to after high school and also been working at the same job for 4 years. The 70 credits comes out to like what, 2-3 years or something? I forget how that gets calculated
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: AirK on April 22, 2008, 01:48:03 AM
anyone know how long after the public application closing date till you get to take the test?
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: PHL Approach on April 22, 2008, 01:54:41 AM
anyone know how long after the public application closing date till you get to take the test?

It depends. The last hiring, people were getting the approval to take the AT-SAT show up in their ASAP only a few hours to a day after completing the application. They would then be able to take the test a week to two weeks after getting the approval. Now the first OTS openings through ASAP last year. It took my friends 6 to 7 months to get to take the AT-SAT.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: jdfmoc on April 22, 2008, 10:27:29 AM
I wish Riddle had a stricter requirement to be recommended. 3.0 or 3.2 would be better. I don't keep myself fully up to date on the names of the companies that have made our sims, but Riddle just got a new EnRoute Sim a year ago. So I don't know if it is still Adacel.

I think Riddles new EnRoute Sim is awesome. (Not that I would know how good it is.) But the 2 guys from ZDC that are working in that sim with us say they like it. (But they might just be saying that.)

What I do know is that it is that we are working Memphis Center Sector 66, which is the same sector you work at OAK. This is a huge advantage.

Are other schools using that sector in their EnRoute classes?

My understanding is that Riddle got their Adacel system in 2003.  And yes, Beaver also uses JAN-LO, Sector 66 for both non-radar and Radar Associate.

Why are there 2 guys from ZDC in yor class at Riddle?  I'm assuming they're not controllers, Remote Pilot Operators, maybe?  Take RPO opinions with a grain assault, they have the illusion of having knowledge of center ops but they have DySim experience only.

Riddle updatd there lab in 2006 to Xavius ATC System. They just updated their Terminal Lab and Tower in the Summer of 2007 to Xavius. No more adacel products on the campus of riddle. Riddle now has three tower sims, 1 15 station Terminal Lab and 1 9 Station Enroute Lab. They are all state of the art. I enjoyed my education at riddle. I do agree working in the tower at beaver sounds fun.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: DreamingATC13 on April 27, 2008, 11:20:33 PM
Ok so if right now you had to make a list of the top 5 CTI schools what would they be and in what order. From sounds of things i expect UND, Riddle, and Beaver, but im curious as to the schools that might fall slightly behind them. And for the CTI forum members do you believe the CTI Program prepared you well for what you faced during the academy and help you learn faster during your training period at your facility? Thank You.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: NWA ARJ on April 28, 2008, 09:35:50 AM
If I had to rank them it would go like this:

1.UND
2.ERAU
3.Beaver
4.Anchorage
5.Purdue

I believe that if I had not gone to a CTI school it would have been alot harder for me at my facility. I believe that the CTI program was well worth it to get the degree. I also believe it helped to get my private pilot certificate and my instrument rating. But from what I have heard about the OTS hires is that they are not doing very well. I also like the fact that I have a four year degree, and if I ever want to do something different, then I can. So I would definitely recommend going to a CTI school, and one of the five listed above!
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: DreamingATC13 on April 28, 2008, 01:25:04 PM
NWA ARJ, Thank You very much for the feed back and I believe that I will definetly be heading to a CTI School for my degree. What school did you attend and did your school offer the Air Traffic Managment degree or did you have to take some other aviation degree that included the CTI curriculm. I just wonder because I know some schools offer the 4 year degree that is strictly air traffic managment but many other schools have other degrees like aviation managment which is more buisness related but carries the CTI classes with it.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: davolijj on April 28, 2008, 02:19:36 PM
Let me just preface by saying I'm a CCBC grad '03.  My rankings look like this:

1. Tie - Beaver (CCBC)
           UND
2. UAA (Alaska)
3. MCTC (the former MARC school)
4. Middle TN State Univ (MTSU)
5. Riddle

My opinions are based solely on how I see each of the schools' graduates performing in the field throughout the training process (myself included).

Before the Riddle people get all offended, I have them ranked that low because I see a fundamental flaw in their program -- they have all sorts of wizbang stuff and tons of $$, but when it comes down to it they're more interested in turning a profit than they are putting out a good product...and that flaw was pointed out to me by several of their alumns who are struggling in training.

UAA has a great faculty and is committed to equipping its student body with every resource possible to succeed in the FAA.  Every one of their students I've seen was a legitamate prospect.

I don't know much about MTSU's program but overall their grads seem to be very successful in training. Same goes for UND, which also has a tremendous network of resources available to its alumni, and their tower sim is pretty amazing.  All the MARC people I work with are very good, so if the new program is anything like their old one it's definitely a contender.

CCBC, well what can I say?  You get to work real live traffic in a VFR tower before you even go to the academy.  That's hard to top.  It's one of the only schools which actually screens its students after they're enrolled.  When I was there we had about a 15-20% washout rate in the facility rating classes (tower).  The faculty there is amazing, and focused on one goal...to turn out the highest quality graduate for the FAA.  Profit is a very distant second priority since it's a Community College.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: mk on April 28, 2008, 03:40:55 PM
well what would you say if i said over half of the ccbc grads have already flunked my facility???  doesn't mean ccbc doesn't do they're job.   
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: davolijj on April 28, 2008, 07:17:42 PM
well what would you say if i said over half of the ccbc grads have already flunked my facility???  doesn't mean ccbc doesn't do they're job.   

I'd say it's an anomaly
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: mk on April 28, 2008, 09:48:43 PM
anomaly?? Right...has to be...not.  plus figure that there are 4 to 1 riddle grads over ccbc grads per year. i'm not saying 100% of riddle grads are gonna make the grade... but then again...no one from riddle has left...but we're at a level 12 here.  so maybe it's just natural selection when working/ trying to learn with insane traffic and airspace.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: NAplaya16-ATC on April 29, 2008, 12:29:21 AM
not to interject here, but its really hard to label a school better than another!!    each school has its positives an negatives whether it be technology, training techniques, professors, etc.     regardless of anything, it all comes down to one thing, WORK ETHIC!!!  if a person has the drive and is willing to succeed then, to me, regardless of where they come from, they will make it as an ATC!!

(now, since im only 19, this is my young and adolescent attitude, which could very well change as i get further along, but for now, its how i see it)  haha
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: NWA ARJ on April 29, 2008, 12:48:00 AM
well what would you say if i said over half of the ccbc grads have already flunked my facility???  doesn't mean ccbc doesn't do they're job.   

I would say you work at a TRACON and the Beaver kids trained on LIVE traffic in a tower. Kinda makes a difference in that case if you go to a tower vs a tracon.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: davolijj on April 29, 2008, 05:58:17 AM
well what would you say if i said over half of the ccbc grads have already flunked my facility???  doesn't mean ccbc doesn't do they're job.   

I'd also say that you're a moron and I'm not going to engage in this debate with you anymore (since I try not to debate morons)....except to say this:

We've had one washout at my facility in the past 3 months -  a Riddle grad.  But hey we're just a level 12 here so maybe it's natural selection.  A buddy of mine at DAB said they had a Riddle grad wash out on Clearance Delivery.  HOW DO YOU WASH OUT ON CLEARANCE DELIVERY??
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: AirK on April 29, 2008, 09:40:56 AM
like NAplaya16-ATC says, it all comes down to the person and not the school. Just because some grads from riddle or some grads from another school happen to be 'washed out' because of the type of work they do, doesn't make the school any worse than the other. And like some people have stated, some of the OTS guys are doing just as good, if not better, than the CTI guys so what does that tell you  :-D
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: mk on April 29, 2008, 04:17:30 PM
well what would you say if i said over half of the ccbc grads have already flunked my facility???  doesn't mean ccbc doesn't do they're job.   

I'd also say that you're a moron and I'm not going to engage in this debate with you anymore (since I try not to debate morons)....except to say this:

We've had one washout at my facility in the past 3 months -  a Riddle grad.  But hey we're just a level 12 here so maybe it's natural selection.  A buddy of mine at DAB said they had a Riddle grad wash out on Clearance Delivery.  HOW DO YOU WASH OUT ON CLEARANCE DELIVERY??

wow...so up tight...sorry i'm such a "moron".   your beaver guys didn't even make it to floor...which means, genius, they didn't even get a chance to train....  so go figure...but it is def individuals involved...they were nice guys, just not for this job.  some of my best friends here are ccbc grads and they're all great...

if i'm such a moron then explain me being the first CTI to get a scope and now D3 at my facility???  another "anomaly" to you davojjjjj  check yourself before you spout off at the mouth
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: mk on April 29, 2008, 04:20:44 PM
like NAplaya16-ATC says, it all comes down to the person and not the school. Just because some grads from riddle or some grads from another school happen to be 'washed out' because of the type of work they do, doesn't make the school any worse than the other. And like some people have stated, some of the OTS guys are doing just as good, if not better, than the CTI guys so what does that tell you  :-D

just to clarify, i do agree with you AirK and everyone else here that knows that schools don't matter when it comes down to it...they can help or they can hurt, but the individual makes it happen....i have a good friend at ATL Tracon...never had a sim in CTI school...they just read the rules...and he's makin' it just fine in ATL.  but i'm a moron, what do i know
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: DreamingATC13 on April 29, 2008, 04:57:13 PM
Well I didn't know my questions were gonna get this much debate.lol But after checking out all 23 approved CTI schools I think I have narrowed my choice down to Middle Tennessee and Beaver. I see Riddle is very good and high tech but i just dont have the money to attend a school like that. Thanks alot for all the feedback, I have been to other aviation sites and have posted questions like the ones before and nobody feels like taking the time and effort to help people trying to get into the air traffic field so thanks.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: KSYR-pjr on April 29, 2008, 05:44:58 PM
Well I didn't know my questions were gonna get this much debate.

You could have posted "the surface of the sun is hotter than the Earth" in an aviation forum and there would have been several posts disagreeing with one aspect or another of this fact, two posts criticizing your grammar, and one post expressing anger because the author thought you were insulting a family member.
Title: Re: What are the best schools to become an Atc ?
Post by: davolijj on April 29, 2008, 05:48:18 PM
And let's not forget the obligatory links to other threads where the subject has been covered ad nauseam.