Author Topic: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones  (Read 22354 times)

Offline winglover1

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Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« on: March 20, 2014, 08:50:37 AM »
A buddy of mine and I have a disagreement over the usage of "Goodnight" when being handed off. I have used this and have heard it used hundreds of times. My friend Kevin asserts that the official hand off is "Roger Out"

I have a beer riding on this. What say you?

Thanks
 in advance
Mr Bill
 8-)



Offline acarsuser

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2014, 09:31:05 AM »
Anyone know the context of this quote?  I'm assuming it was a 'radar service, terminated contact enroute communication type, but I can not confirm via CNN or even Google.

Anyone know?

Offline Rick108

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2014, 10:24:08 AM »
Your poll asks "is it official" - I think the answer to that is clearly NO.  However, it is commonly used (in the US, at least).  I hear this all the time during a handoff, as in:

ATC: United 23 contact Podunk Center on 123.4
Pilot: 123.4 United 23, Goodnight (or "so long" or "see ya", etc.)

If you are referring to the last MH370 comm, I didn't think there was anything unusual in that 'final' transmission - it seemed very normal to me from the transcript.

Offline RonR

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2014, 10:36:25 AM »
I think it's safe to say that the term "Good Night" is not an official way to end a transmission after being handed off from one ATC sector to the next.  Having said that, I also don't think that there is an "official" way to end a communication other than to repeat what the controller said to you.  For example, if you are told by a controller to "contact Boston Center on 135.8", you should read that instruction back to the controller.  As far as a final word before switching frequencies?  I've heard pilots and controllers say all kinds of things: "Bye", See Ya", "Good Morning", "Adios", "So Long", "See you on the way back", "Good Night"...the list goes on.  I have never heard either a pilot or controller say "Roger Out"

Things are a little different when aircraft are beyond VHF range and are communicating with ATC on HF.  Here you might hear "Roger, roger" at the end of a transmission but you'll also hear "Go Ahead" during a conversation to signify that one side has finished with what they had to say and is waiting for a response.  But here too I've never really heard anyone say "Roger Out".

Ron


Offline tyketto

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2014, 12:58:57 PM »

The proper answer to this is "no", because there is no official phraseology to be used outside of reading back what ATC has said. Anything else is a salutation. Furthermore, there really is no 'official' phraseology that pilots have. In the US, they at least have the AIM to go off of, but those are not mandatory/required, like the 7110.65 is for ATC.

So wherever your friend found "Roger out", is definitely wrong there.

BL.

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2014, 02:30:59 PM »
Gosh, I don't ever recall saying "Roger"... if given an instruction my last word, following the read-back, was always my tail number. If asked a question like, "Did you copy OK?" or "Are you squawking 1234?" my response would be "affirmative" or "negative" followed by a read-back of the question ("Negative copy...", etc.). It was after the read-back of a frequency hand-off where my final utterance would be something like, "So long", "Adios" or "Have a good night". That's in the VHF ATC world.

As Ron points out, things are a bit different on HF, primarily because the pilot is not talking to ATC but rather to ARINC operators relaying communications between pilots and ATC facilities. There, because of the often more difficult reception environment (static, fading, etc.) pilots and ground operators will use "Over" or "Go ahead" to indicate the end of an individual transmission and "Out" to indicate their last transmission (end of conversation), and you will also hear a "Roger" from time to time, generally in the form of a busy ground operator acknowledging receipt and understanding of a transmission in lieu of a full read-back ("Copy all..."), such as "Roger on your DARUX position report, change now to...". But just as with VHF pilots and ground operators will often say "Thanks for your help", "You're welcome" or "Goodnight" when parting company.

Offline Squawk 7700

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2014, 02:55:09 PM »
Roger Roger...what's your vector Victor...
http://movieclips.com/Ye5L-airplane-movie-roger-roger/
 :-D

Offline RonR

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2014, 05:20:47 PM »
Check the radar range...

...about three minutes sir!  :-D (from that same movie!)

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2014, 06:18:26 PM »
Looks like I picked the wrong day to give up posting...

Offline RonR

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Re:
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2014, 06:30:30 PM »
And don't call me shirley...

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

Offline JetScan1

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2014, 08:40:11 PM »
In the US the (un)official handoff protocol is .... say fitty instead of fifty if it's in your callsign and end all transmisions with BOOYAH.

I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 08:50:41 PM by JetScan1 »

Offline tyketto

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2014, 01:37:13 PM »
The official way to end a transmission is with an overemphasized "CYA!" Just don't fail and sound like you're having a stroke like this Skywest pilot.

Hardly. Officially, we have to end everything with MOCHA HAGoTDI, like Cape Air pilots do. ;)

BL.

Offline ridejumpfly

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2014, 03:13:49 PM »
Unlike cb type lingo there is no right way to check out. A general good day, good night, cya, catch you on the flip side etc are all heard. None wrong.


Justin whetstone

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2014, 03:28:35 PM »
Ten four, good buddy.

Offline joeyb747

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2014, 11:58:55 AM »
Anyone know the context of this quote?  I'm assuming it was a 'radar service, terminated contact enroute communication type, but I can not confirm via CNN or even Google.

Anyone know?

According to the copy of the translated transcript released by the Daily Telegraph, the hand-off went like this:

01:19:24 ATC: "Malaysia 370, please contact Hu Chi Minh City 120.9, good night."

01:19:29 MH370: "All right, good night."

This transcript has not been authenticated by Malaysia Airlines or the government at this point.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10716042/Malaysia-Airlines-MH370-March-21-as-it-happened.html

A buddy of mine and I have a disagreement over the usage of "Goodnight" when being handed off. I have used this and have heard it used hundreds of times. My friend Kevin asserts that the official hand off is "Roger Out"

I've heard some crazy hand-offs ("See ya", "Switching", "Merry Christmas", "Mele Kalikimaka", "Catch you on the flip", Guuday Mate", etc...), none of which are "OFFICIAL",  but "Roger Out" is defiantly not an "official" hand-off. Walky-talky, maybe...   8-)

Rick108 gives a great example of an "OFFICIAL" hand-off:

ATC: United 23 contact Podunk Center on 123.4
Pilot: 123.4 United 23, Goodnight (or "so long" or "see ya", etc.)

MH 370 left out the call sign and the center frequency they were given. Had they said "All right, 120.9, Malaysia 370, Good night", the hand-off would have been 100% "official". I see nothing out of the "ordinary" with "all right, good night". A bit casual, yes. Out of the "ordinary", no.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 12:03:02 PM by joeyb747 »

Offline dgarley

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2014, 11:14:30 AM »
Much depends on individual controller preference, frequency congestion,  and what the supervisors will allow when exchanging "pleasantries and salutations".  bye-bye, cya, goodnight are not official of course.  Shorter is better.  Sometimes there is nothing added to the basic communication.   All that is necessary is to acknowledge the handoff.  A simple "one two zero pont niner, Navajo 345" or "Contact XYZ ,Navajo 345"  is sufficient to acknowledge a controllers  instruction of  "Navajo 345 Contact XYZ approach on one two zero pont niner".   Nothing more needed.  If it's really busy, even just "Navajo 345" will do. 

Offline RNC

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2014, 12:15:35 AM »
As a pilot, I always say "good day" or "good night", unless I know the controller personally (at my home base tower), and then say "see ya", because..well...I'll see him at some point.

I have never heard "roger out" that I can remember.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 12:19:13 AM by RNC »

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Use of the word "Goodnight" when passing ATC zones
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2014, 07:46:39 PM »
You mean, they don't just say, "Three's, good buddy" anymore? My favorite was an old ex - PanAm, 30k hr corporate pilot (For Pepsi, I think) who used to always acknowledge his KHPN tower-departure hand-off with a simple "Aaaadios"... no read-back, no callsign, daring anybody to complain. Gave me a chuckle every time.