Air Traffic Monitoring > Listener Forum
updated KJFK departures
wiedehopf:
So the FAA has updated their departures for JFK:
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/dtpp/search/results/?cycle=1808&ident=JFK&page=1
(There is a nice compare button)
Only real change seems to be the required climb gradient for the SKORR departure
http://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1808/compare_pdf/00610skorr_cmp.pdf
I guess that's for noise abatement.
What i wonder though: Why didn't they incorporate the infamous "Kennedy Four; fly runway heading to the JFK 1.5 DME then right turn 100"
That is a real mouthful to be read and read back. If they would just put it into the Kennedy Five .... whatever.
Have a nice day!
Comfirm31L:
They cant make it a published SID because an environmental impact study would need to be done and that can take years. If they started it years ago it could've been done by now!
wiedehopf:
Confirm13L:
Oh well. That's probably the reason why the 22R and 22L localizer are in stupid places. The marsh would not care if there were some localizer antennas on stilts embedded in it. Probably makes maintenance harder though.
Today a Delta had uneven flaps extension and laded with flaps 11 and 13.
They chose the "longer" rwy 22R which actually has less landing distance available than 22L.
But i guess if you fly the last 500 feet or so visually you can touch down quite a bit earlier while still being safe.
The stupidly far displaced threshold is for noise reasons i presume?
P.S.: did i say right? cleared to land 31L
tyketto:
--- Quote from: wiedehopf on July 19, 2018, 09:30:33 AM ---So the FAA has updated their departures for JFK:
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/dtpp/search/results/?cycle=1808&ident=JFK&page=1
(There is a nice compare button)
Only real change seems to be the required climb gradient for the SKORR departure
http://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1808/compare_pdf/00610skorr_cmp.pdf
I guess that's for noise abatement.
What i wonder though: Why didn't they incorporate the infamous "Kennedy Four; fly runway heading to the JFK 1.5 DME then right turn 100"
That is a real mouthful to be read and read back. If they would just put it into the Kennedy Five .... whatever.
Have a nice day!
--- End quote ---
Your answer lies in the on the actual JFK4 an JFK5 SID, let alone the description of the chart; particularly, the notes section. The second note there states:
*Note: To be assigned to non-turbojet aircraft.
This would mean props or even blimps would use this SID, and no jets. It basically is the prop and non-RNAV equivalent to the SKORR3/SKORR4, with being used for noise abatement only (read: nighttime ops), while the SKORR can be used any time of the day or night.
BL.
wiedehopf:
--- Quote from: tyketto on July 23, 2018, 05:02:57 PM ---Your answer lies in the on the actual JFK4 an JFK5 SID, let alone the description of the chart; particularly, the notes section. The second note there states:
*Note: To be assigned to non-turbojet aircraft.
This would mean props or even blimps would use this SID, and no jets. It basically is the prop and non-RNAV equivalent to the SKORR3/SKORR4, with being used for noise abatement only (read: nighttime ops), while the SKORR can be used any time of the day or night.
BL.
--- End quote ---
So that can't be quite correct. The note only applies to the Idlewild Climb, that is the right turn out of the 31s which is used for props and turboprops which is used so they don't clog up the SKORR departure being slow.
Also used at night which is stupid as the SKORR or the canarsie climb would be better noise wise.
The second note only applies to the Gateway Climb and i have not heard that one assigned ever. If they assign something differen from runway heading off 22R it is: On departure fly heading 250 to join the Canarsie 223 radial.
This is sometimes done for the folks that are routed via RBV Robbinsville and would get the RANGR transition of the SKORR departure.
But when they are assigned this instead of just runway heading i'm not sure.
And the SKORR is only used for 31L not for 04L.
For 04L the current standard is what i wrote above:
"Kennedy 5 departure, fly runway heading until JFK 1.5 DME, then turn right heading 100"
They could put that in the SKORR departure and save themselves tons of work when changing runways. They would not even need to change the clearance then.
Maybe i should put a soundfile on here what it sounds like when it's busy and they change to 04L as a departure runway :)
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