Author Topic: SoCal Approach is busy today  (Read 10372 times)

Offline laylow

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SoCal Approach is busy today
« on: July 03, 2008, 02:40:55 PM »
San Diego International is running backwards, using Runway 9 today, because of the weather.  27 has no ILS, 9 does.  But, some aircraft can't hack the steep climb out of 9, so they have to use 27, flying into oncoming traffic.  SoCal Approach is really, really busy, as is San Diego ground.  They've got planes taxiing all over the place.  You can listen to SoCal approach and departure at http://www.scansandiego.net
It's pretty interesting, I don't think I've ever heard so many traffic alerts from the approach controller.



Offline Jason

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Re: SoCal Approach is busy today
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2008, 02:43:33 PM »
Moved to listener forum.  No clip attached or posted.

Offline tyketto

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Re: SoCal Approach is busy today
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2008, 04:35:23 PM »
Yes, East Ops at KSAN is quite the rarity. For those in the know, 27 at SAN does have the LOC, but with few clouds at 500 and ceiling of 600 - 800OVC, you wouldn't break out in time to avoid the tops of downtown Sandy Eggo.

But if landing 9 and departing 27, it's very akin to noise abatement (suicide) ops at LAX after midnight local, where they arrive on the 6s and depart the 25s.

That, let alone east ops or noise abatement procedures in general for SoCal is quite the good listen.

BL.

Offline laylow

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Re: SoCal Approach is busy today
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2008, 04:41:37 PM »
Nevermind, answered my own question.

Offline bluecrewfan08

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Re: SoCal Approach is busy today
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2008, 05:54:59 PM »
Yes, East Ops at KSAN is quite the rarity. For those in the know, 27 at SAN does have the LOC, but with few clouds at 500 and ceiling of 600 - 800OVC, you wouldn't break out in time to avoid the tops of downtown Sandy Eggo.

But if landing 9 and departing 27, it's very akin to noise abatement (suicide) ops at LAX after midnight local, where they arrive on the 6s and depart the 25s.

That, let alone east ops or noise abatement procedures in general for SoCal is quite the good listen.

BL.


 I've seen much written about how pilots do not like landing at LAX from the west after midnight, or during storms  etc...
 But, as I am not a pilot, what exactly makes it more difficult?  Seems to me that around the country there are loads of airports with normal operations that take you over the water, short final, or departure.

SFO,OAK,JFK,LGA,BOS, etc...

They all have runways MUCH closer to water then at LAX.

Is it because of the infrequency of use at LAX ?   or is it something different?


Rob

Offline tyketto

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Re: SoCal Approach is busy today
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2008, 06:36:15 PM »
Yes, East Ops at KSAN is quite the rarity. For those in the know, 27 at SAN does have the LOC, but with few clouds at 500 and ceiling of 600 - 800OVC, you wouldn't break out in time to avoid the tops of downtown Sandy Eggo.

But if landing 9 and departing 27, it's very akin to noise abatement (suicide) ops at LAX after midnight local, where they arrive on the 6s and depart the 25s.

That, let alone east ops or noise abatement procedures in general for SoCal is quite the good listen.

BL.


 I've seen much written about how pilots do not like landing at LAX from the west after midnight, or during storms  etc...
 But, as I am not a pilot, what exactly makes it more difficult?  Seems to me that around the country there are loads of airports with normal operations that take you over the water, short final, or departure.

SFO,OAK,JFK,LGA,BOS, etc...

They all have runways MUCH closer to water then at LAX.

Is it because of the infrequency of use at LAX ?   or is it something different?


Rob

Picture yourself as a WWII fighter pilot (or any fighter pilot) working off of an air craft carrier, and flying out on a couple of missions, all at night. Your sortie goes out one way, then comes back in the opposite way. Your carrier won't know if you will be coming back.

It is similar at LAX. you're going off into the night (marine layer), and the arrivals won't see you going out, let alone tower seeing you coming in. Yes, there is the distance between the 6s and 7s, but ATC has to keep that open for the arrivals. So departures off the 25s are getting a quick left turnout to avoid the 6R/L arrivals coming into the corridor. You're pretty much seeing opposite direction traffic coming your way on arrival and/or departure.

This image here shows the arrivals coming into LAX. Now picture the departures going out as they normally do over the ocean at the same time the arrivals come in. Interesting stuff.

BL.

Offline bluecrewfan08

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Re: SoCal Approach is busy today
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2008, 07:07:15 PM »
Thanks for the explanation.. I had never looked at it that way.

Now I see with it's configuration, why LAX is pretty unique in that way. Luckily it's not the normal pattern.

Rob

Offline tyketto

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Re: SoCal Approach is busy today
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2008, 01:56:28 PM »
Thanks for the explanation.. I had never looked at it that way.

Now I see with it's configuration, why LAX is pretty unique in that way. Luckily it's not the normal pattern.

Rob


Actually, it is quite the norm! This is standard operations between midnight and 6:30am local time (assuming winds aren't out of the east and greater than 10kts). Most commercial flights don't see this there because their last incoming flights are just scraping in before the configuration change starts. But this happens there every day.

BL.

Offline bluecrewfan08

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Re: SoCal Approach is busy today
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2008, 07:42:25 PM »
OK....let me rephrase that then.

I am glad it is only "normal" for approx. 20-30 flights a day, and not for the other 1600

And I sleep much better when these "normal " operations are in place.  :-D

What I hate, is when they use the 6's and 7's.  Thankfully, it isn't very often

Rob