airtraffic

Author Topic: Sign petition for the law to change in regards to UK atc.  (Read 10607 times)

Offline KL591

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Sign petition for the law to change in regards to UK atc.
« on: April 11, 2016, 07:21:20 PM »
Hi everyone.

Any of my fellow uk listeners able to sign my petition in regards to getting the law changed to allow us to listen to uk atc. As you are aware it is illegal to listen to uk atc feeds. This is an archaic law and I want to get this off the ground to have it changed.

Thanks for your help.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/127620/sponsors/XQXhmW4SPIHUUnX7fY9



Offline martyj19

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Re: Sign petition for the law to change in regards to UK atc.
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2016, 05:51:56 AM »
A petition is not going to do a thing.  No legislator pays any attention to petitions.  If you are on here and from the UK, call your local person and find an MP who will sponsor the repeal.  Ideally there would be several, and ideally they would be pilots themselves.  Find out where the resistance to repeal is coming from and overcome it.

Offline JetScan1

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Re: Sign petition for the law to change in regards to UK atc.
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2016, 10:30:32 AM »
I've heard "rumours" that there is a secret underground network with many UK ATC feeds now operating. If any members of this secret radio club can get me me access I would be interesting in donating funds to help out. Please PM.

JS
- I'm not a Nark. 

Offline KL591

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Re: Sign petition for the law to change in regards to UK atc.
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2016, 04:24:22 PM »
I don't think my local MP would help. He is useless in everything he does.

I would also be very interested in this underground network of anyone has any info.

Offline Alex_UK

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Re: Sign petition for the law to change in regards to UK atc.
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2016, 03:19:01 PM »
I shared your petition on Facebook, Twitter, and on http://www.manchesterairport.live/ and we've got from 8 to 120 signatures in just 8 hours.

Please keep sharing - we need at least 10,000 signatures by 30 November 2016!
This should be doable: 100 signatures/day x 176 days left = 17,600 signatures.

If we can get 100,000 signatures - "this petition will be considered for debate in Parliament", which is what we want.
So please keep sharing the URL!
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/127620

Offline tyketto

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Re: Sign petition for the law to change in regards to UK atc.
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2016, 02:13:48 PM »

Not to be a downer on this, but if you're wanting to get this in to Parliament for debate, your petition is missing one major thing: JUSTIFICATION. And to be honest, simply saying, "Well, the US/Germany/Australia/<insert country here> can do it!" isn't justification.

The big issue here (and I'm going off of 13 years memory here, which was the last time I debated this, and in this forum, now that I think of it) is you are fighting what is now 67 years of precedence, and need to answer why that precedence should be changed. That precedence is the British Telegraphy Act of 1949. To put it very short and sweet, that Act stated that all communications between two parties are only meant to be heard or shared between those two parties only. Basically, any monitoring or rebroadcasting of those telecommunications by a third party is illegal. It is this last part that is what makes the rebroadcast of ATC in the UK illegal. You can take a scanner to an airport and listen to them, which is fine; you aren't rebroadcasting it. But the moment you stream it online, you're in trouble.

You will need to justify why that section should be repealed/overturned, and saying that <xxx country> can do it isn't justification for them to overwrite 67 years of precedence.

NOW.....

With that said, You may not need to petition Parliament after all.

I did some quick searching through Google and Wikipedia and while I knew that it was updated by the Telegraphy Acts of of 1967 and 1990, I didn't know it parts of it were superseded by the Broadcasting Act of 1984. But The Telegraphy Act of 1949 was fully repealed in 2003.

What you should do is this. Of the signatories in your petition, someone needs to take the lead and write a carefully worded letter and send it OFCOM (both email and written), and state that while you've studied up on all Telegraphy and communications acts from the past 70 years, you currently see nothing in any of those acts that forbid the act of streaming ATC of UK Airports. Seek clarification from that from OFCOM, and explicitly ask them for the ruling, writ of law, all the way down to the wording. You need them to give you the exact words for their justification.

CAVEAT: Quick Wikipedia search for the Wireless Telegraphy Act of 2006 shows Section 48:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/36/part/2/chapter/5

You'll need to read through it and re-read through it again, especially sections 46 - 50, to clearly understand it as it relates to ATC streaming, as OFCOM can construe that as 'intercepting'. And that isn't even getting into the main section of it on if this even requires a license.

Regardless, you should also verify that ATC services in the UK are taxpayer funded. If they are, then you may have a right to listen to those services; again, this doesn't provide info on if to provide a feed for those services requires a license. All of those questions are for OFCOM and possibly a telecom lawyer to answer.

BL.

Offline chrislawton

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Chrislawton
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2016, 12:02:18 PM »
My advice woukd be to just do it and set up a feed. Ofcom doesnt give two hoots as to what goes on anymore.
Life is too short to worry about petitions. You are a long time dead.

Offline Casper87

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Re: Sign petition for the law to change in regards to UK atc.
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2016, 06:42:19 AM »
Hey,

"Regardless, you should also verify that ATC services in the UK are taxpayer funded. If they are, then you may have a right to listen to those services; again, this doesn't provide info on if to provide a feed for those services requires a license. All of those questions are for OFCOM and possibly a telecom lawyer to answer."

Unfortunately the provision of Air Traffic Services within the UK is not publicly funded. Certainly not directly. There are many different ANSPs within the UK, all are essentially private apart from Nats, which is a Public Private Partnership.

Rgds,

C

Offline tyketto

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Re: Sign petition for the law to change in regards to UK atc.
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2016, 02:02:09 PM »
Hey,

"Regardless, you should also verify that ATC services in the UK are taxpayer funded. If they are, then you may have a right to listen to those services; again, this doesn't provide info on if to provide a feed for those services requires a license. All of those questions are for OFCOM and possibly a telecom lawyer to answer."

Unfortunately the provision of Air Traffic Services within the UK is not publicly funded. Certainly not directly. There are many different ANSPs within the UK, all are essentially private apart from Nats, which is a Public Private Partnership.

Rgds,

C

Can you elaborate on "public Private Partnership"? That implies that if the public is involved, then they have a say in the matter.

BL.