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Author Topic: Going Down To So Cal Approach  (Read 7661 times)

Offline michaelt747

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Going Down To So Cal Approach
« on: August 02, 2006, 12:21:33 PM »
So Im Stoked!!! Tomorrow afternoon, I am going to be getting a tour of the SoCal Approach Tracon down near San Diego, CA!!!  I can't wait--i'm so unbelieveably excited!!!

Alright...I just had to announce it!

Peace out guys,

Michael

ps are there any questions that you want me to ask them while im down there?



Offline tyketto

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Re: Going Down To So Cal Approach
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2006, 03:13:32 PM »
A couple from me:

are they using simultaneous visual approaches to both 24L and 24R with 25L being closed at LAX?

How does 25L/7R's closure at LAX affect noise abatement procedures after midnight local time?

Are they using the ACE-IDS system, like what is being used at Norcal Approach? On a tour of NCT, we were told that there are a few TRACONs that have it, but not many. Are they using it? More info on this here.

How do they coordinate departures from KSAN to Mexico Center?

that's all I can think of for now.. I'll probably think of more after lunch and a siesta!  :mrgreen:

BL.

Offline Luis_C

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Re: Going Down To So Cal Approach
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2006, 03:40:05 PM »


How do they coordinate departures from KSAN to Mexico Center?



I'm interested in knowing that too! And by the way, it is Mazatlan Center. ;) Then more at the South of the country, Monterrey Center, and more Mexico Center.

I'm in Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico, and I listen to many flights from Los Angeles to Mexico City, or other many places. Sadly, most of the time I only hear the pilots, but there's times and places where cool things happen that I can even listen to flights that are really far. :)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2006, 03:50:35 PM by Luis_C »

Offline Jason

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Re: Going Down To So Cal Approach
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2006, 03:46:19 PM »
Are they using the ACE-IDS system, like what is being used at Norcal Approach? On a tour of NCT, we were told that there are a few TRACONs that have it, but not many. Are they using it? More info on this here

I don't know how long ago you went on a tour of NCT, but IDS-5 is the latest system out there AFaIK.  There are plenty of TRACONs that are now using the system (IDS5), such as A90 to mention just one.  I believe the FAA is installing the new system along with the installation of STARS.

I was at N90 last week, and they're still running IDS4, so there are plenty out there that still run the old system as you said.

Jason
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 04:02:19 PM by Jason »

Offline davys747

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Re: Going Down To So Cal Approach
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2006, 04:23:41 PM »
I dunno if Im too late for this.

I would like to know why KAYOH4 arrivals for Santa Ana get 5200' after KAYOH. Also if you could get any information on SNA North ops or Departure Area East Ops I'd appreciate it.

Cheers.

Offline tyketto

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Re: Going Down To So Cal Approach
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2006, 07:20:53 PM »
Are they using the ACE-IDS system, like what is being used at Norcal Approach? On a tour of NCT, we were told that there are a few TRACONs that have it, but not many. Are they using it? More info on this here

I don't know how long ago you went on a tour of NCT, but IDS-5 is the latest system out there AFaIK.  There are plenty of TRACONs that are now using the system (IDS5), such as PHL and A90 to mention just a few.  I believe the FAA is installing the new system along with the installation of STARS.

I was at N90 last week, and they're still running IDS4, so there are plenty out there that still run the old system as you said.

Jason

NCT is at IDS4? Interesting. My tour of NCT was in May, which they told us about the entire project (including the price!  :-o ). They have something similar to it at SMF Tower, but not to the extent of NCT. Some of the VATSIM guys are thinking of implementing it through a website and PHP, but I'm not sure on how far along they are on that.

BL.

Offline Jason

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Re: Going Down To So Cal Approach
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2006, 08:08:42 PM »
NCT is at IDS4? Interesting. My tour of NCT was in May, which they told us about the entire project (including the price!  :-o ). They have something similar to it at SMF Tower, but not to the extent of NCT. Some of the VATSIM guys are thinking of implementing it through a website and PHP, but I'm not sure on how far along they are on that.

Nope, I think you misread my post.  N90 (NY TRACON) is still running IDS-4, I have no clue what NCT is running.  ...and yes, it gets very expensive.  Even for a complete STARS LITE system for stand-alone tower with one standard display costs $116,100+.

If those guys on VATSIM are thinking of implementing it and would like assistance in regards to design and testing, don't hesitate to have them contact me (e-mail addy is in my signature).

Regards,
Jason

Offline tyketto

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Re: Going Down To So Cal Approach
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2006, 09:19:28 PM »
NCT is at IDS4? Interesting. My tour of NCT was in May, which they told us about the entire project (including the price!  :-o ). They have something similar to it at SMF Tower, but not to the extent of NCT. Some of the VATSIM guys are thinking of implementing it through a website and PHP, but I'm not sure on how far along they are on that.

Nope, I think you misread my post.  N90 (NY TRACON) is still running IDS-4, I have no clue what NCT is running.  ...and yes, it gets very expensive.  Even for a complete STARS LITE system for stand-alone tower with one standard display costs $116,100+.

If those guys on VATSIM are thinking of implementing it and would like assistance in regards to design and testing, don't hesitate to have them contact me (e-mail addy is in my signature).

Regards,
Jason

Yep, I misread it. Thought that N90 was NCT. NCT is definitely at IDS5 now that I go over my notes from it. From what they mentioned, each radar station a controller sat down at had an overhead display for ACE-IDS that weighed in at the cost of $500M each (NCT is combined like SCT, so think of how much it cost!).

It also had links to charts (funnily enough, the NACO charts on the FAA's site, and myairplane!), SOPs, and static images of traffic flows for different operations. It's really a sight to see in use..

I'll get the guy wanting to do this in touch with you. He put up a quick prototype of this, but I think he switched ISPs and took the pagedown. I'll try to find it again.

BL.


EDIT: Michael, if you see a guy down there controlling the Riverside/Empire sector by the name of Pat Scanlan, tell him the guys from vZLA said hi.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2006, 09:21:45 PM by tyketto »

Offline michaelt747

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Re: Going Down To So Cal Approach
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2006, 10:32:33 PM »
Hey guys so wow, i had an amazing time down at the Tracon...I spent a good 2 hours in there with a controller working on position and stuff, He was working the LAKR sector for a while and then moved over to another sector but i can't remember it for the life of me.  He was mostly a departure controller even though he did do some arrivals into SMO and VNY and SNA.  I did get a chance to ask him all of the questions that you guys asked but I can answer a couple...sorry...my technical knowledge is not that great but here goes:

Regarding the noise abatement he said there there is no real issue...they bring in the airplanes on 7L but require additional spacing due to the departures off of that runway.  Again, he's a departure controller mostly so he said it's a bitch for the arrival guys who are working that sector (I got a chance to watch the guys doing the arrival streams into LAX, and lemme tell you that is quite intense...there are 3-4 guys working one scope--one guy managing the strips, one guy talking to the other airports and sectors getting clearances and such, then the guy who is actually talking to the traffic, and a fourth guy watching over the entire process!!! it was crazy!!!--talk about stressful!)

I didnt ask about the ACE-IDS system, but from looking at those screen shots, I didnt recognize that from anything I saw in the building so Im gonna assume they dont have it (yet)

And as far as coordinating with Mazatlan Center and other centers in Mexico and such, it is done fairly the same as with any other center or approach sector--they are in direct connection with the controller from the sector that controls aircraft passing over the border--he did say however that because of the language barrier and some differences in procedures (and technology)  the handoffs can be difficult but for the most part they are handled like any other handoff.

Regarding the SNA question, the aircraft are decended to 5200 (or climbed to 5200) because there is another sector that partially intercects the sector that handles traffic into SNA which requires the controller to keep traffic in his or her sector without having to hand them off into the other sector and then have the aircraft handed back to the original controller...they do use what's called a POINT OUT where the controller can decend the aircraft without giving the handoff, but it must be approved by the other controller first so this method is easier.

I hope that answered your questions...he got busy towards the end of his shift so he and i were more focused on the traffic and i forgot to ask some of the questions that you all asked when he went on his break.

So i had an awesome time down there!!!!!!!! that place is soooooooooo cooooooooool (I now know what i definately want to do for the rest of my life!!!!!!!!!)--to bad the FAA is F***ing stuff up with their new procedures and pay scales and stuff but that's for a different thread.

peace out guys

Michael

Offline davys747

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Re: Going Down To So Cal Approach
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2006, 01:40:23 AM »
Hey Michael,

Its interesting to hear that Laker sectors was being used. From what I understand its usually combined with Manhatten (MANR).

Here is a list of the Departure area sectors in case you wish to remember what other sector you were watching:

Laker (LAKR)
Malibu (MALR)
Manhatten (MANR)
Newport (NEWR)
Katalina (KATR)

First off, thank you for taking the time to ask the questions that were posted by myself and Brad. I guess I should have made my question a little bit clearer. Do you remember if the controller mentioned anything about 5200' being a minimum vectoring altitude (MVA) where the two sectors intersect?

Offline michaelt747

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Re: Going Down To So Cal Approach
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2006, 02:59:10 AM »
Minimum Vectoring Altitude:  That actually sounds really familiar...im just trying to remember if he said that when we were discussing the SNA question...god...im sorry i cant remember for sure...but it sounds really familiar. 

sorry i couldnt be more help

Michael