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Author Topic: Question from atc of china  (Read 11406 times)

Offline huang

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Question from atc of china
« on: February 26, 2008, 04:06:07 AM »
     hello ,everyone !
     I am an app atc of china ,it is my pleasure to join this forums and share my experience with you. I work as an app controller for six years at an  airport of west china . when i come to this site the first time ,i was so excited and shocked . It is impossible for us to listen the live atc-pilot communication of other airport  of china online.
     I have some questions of atc ,i wonder if someone else can do me a favor to answer it .I will be awfully appreciate for your reply.
    If there is only one landing aircraft under your control in USA ,do the controller in USA usually radar vector the aircraft  for landing or let the aircraft follow STAR which only issue altitude instruction and not issue direction instruction?in my job,our officer require us radar vector every inbound aircraft for landing even there is only one aircraft. I think it is unnecessary to vector every aircraft  when there is no conflict with other aircraft .
    I looking forward for your reply!



Offline SkyViking

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Re: Question from atc of china
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2008, 10:33:44 PM »
I'm not a controller but have been listening to my VHF radios for over 30 years and from what I know, if there is only one or a few aircraft arriving, usually the controller will offer a simple vector to downwind and base or straight in depending on the direction of arrival and runway in use.  Most important, as long as the aircraft maintains minimum altitudes for noise abatement until established, and then stays on or above the glide slope there after, from my listening experience there is no strict adherence to following the STAR.  There are many variables that could impose different procedures.  Even with one arrival, there may be departures and that may require use of the STAR.  I've noticed late at night when there may be only a couple of aircraft in the terminal airspace, the controller will advise the pilot to "put away their arrival charts" follow his vectors and be at a certain level at x DME, etc.  IF you listen to the AMS feed early morning local, you can hear (and see live on Google Earth) what I've mentioned above.  Usually its the low level Center Controller who will advise the aircraft as it begins to descend to disregard the STAR. 

At what altitude do you take control of an aircraft for arrival?

Offline aevins

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Re: Question from atc of china
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2008, 11:18:07 PM »
In many cases vectoring is required because the last fix or NAVAID published on the STAR may be many miles from the final approach fix (FAF)

Offline huang

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Re: Question from atc of china
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2008, 02:17:39 AM »
Thank very much for your reply!
I take control of aircraft below 6000 meters,before the aircraft approaching the initial approach fix , i can issue instruction such as " Cleared for ILS approach runway 02 ,decend as published ,reported established localizer", then pilot follow the chart to intercept ILS ,which radar vectors can be avoided .
Do this happen in your country? do your agree with me?

Offline MathFox

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Re: Question from atc of china
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2008, 09:04:06 AM »
I am not an ATC either... What I know is that, because of noise abatement, planes landing in EHAM should follow a STAR at night. I also know that EHAM took part in an experiment where pilots could follow an optimal glide path during night operations: pick the optimal speed and rate of descent for their aircraft. Sometimes the controllers issue speed guidance for sequencing aircraft on approach.

 
Thank very much for your reply!
I take control of aircraft below 6000 meters,before the aircraft approaching the initial approach fix , i can issue instruction such as " Cleared for ILS approach runway 02 ,decend as published ,reported established localizer", then pilot follow the chart to intercept ILS ,which radar vectors can be avoided .
It is dependent on the local conditions (weather), but I expect that flying a STAR programmed in the autopilot is safe and the lightest workload for the pilots.

Offline aevins

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Re: Question from atc of china
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2008, 01:58:39 PM »
It's also dependent on the procedure itself. There are cases where the STAR ends at the begging of the TRACON's airspace, if the aircraft were to proceed direct to the IAF and descend at pilots discretion to the altitude published on the IAP, they could cross departure lanes if they descend too rapidly.

Offline Robin Rebhan

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Re: Question from atc of china
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2008, 02:24:23 PM »
If you have a lot of questions. May I suggest ordering a FAR/AIM from the USA. I use the www.Pilotshop.com and www.Sportys.com.

Regards to your question. As a Private Pilot. Here, STARS and SIDS can be refused or accepted by PIC. Basically, whatever is safest and fastest works for ATC and the Pilot both is what I'll get. Single aircraft in airspace and I can count on Vectors as this is the quickest and easiest way for everyone. But, safety is number one.
That said, if I have everything loaded into GPS and expect STARS, I may decide to stay with this rather than switch everything around. I need the time to setup instruments for my approach, Wx, or I just feel more comfortable with the STARs should I lose contact with ATC everyone knows where I'll be.
I guess the simple answer is here in the USA it is very flexible depending on safety and need and speed.

Robin Rebhan
Albany, NY USA

Offline aevins

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Re: Question from atc of china
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2008, 03:12:35 PM »

Offline huang

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Re: Question from atc of china
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2008, 08:58:12 PM »
Thank you very much !!!!American people are warmharted ,i learned a lot from your reply .
Welcome to beijing ,welcome to china!

     Huangchenglin ,ChongQing,China

Offline areeda

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Re: Question from atc of china
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2008, 11:05:54 AM »
I'm not a controller but I am an instrument rated pilot and instructor who is based in Los Angeles which is pretty busy airspace.

In the Los Angeles area when it is busy we are almost always vectored, even for practice approaches when we ask for own navigation.  When it is not busy especially if we request it we often get a clearance "you are 10 miles from XXX fly direct XXX cleared for the approach"  where XXX is an initial, intermediate, or final approach fix.  I have not been given a STAR and approach clearance in one call.

In other areas of the country I've been told "we don't vector for approaches, say intentions".

Joe