Author Topic: question about (non-English) language use in ATC  (Read 12106 times)

Offline TexasListener

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question about (non-English) language use in ATC
« on: December 20, 2007, 02:31:05 PM »
I had heard at some point that English was the standard language for air traffic control. 

But since I've been listening here, I notice that this isn't necessarily true.  Air France pilots talk to the Paris controllers in French.  Same situation in Mexico City and Buenos Aires.

As someone with an interest in foreign languages and language interaction, I'm curious if this ever presents issues.

Any comments?  Anecdotes?  Anything about the subject in general?

Thanks.



Offline tyketto

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Re: question about (non-English) language use in ATC
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2007, 03:32:15 PM »
I had heard at some point that English was the standard language for air traffic control. 

But since I've been listening here, I notice that this isn't necessarily true.  Air France pilots talk to the Paris controllers in French.  Same situation in Mexico City and Buenos Aires.

As someone with an interest in foreign languages and language interaction, I'm curious if this ever presents issues.

Any comments?  Anecdotes?  Anything about the subject in general?

Thanks.

<insert random Boston John anectode here> :) :)

Seriously though, I've read about this too, but you have to wonder about how it is at airports in countries where English isn't the primary language. I know that some places this is accepted, let alone the norm. But there has always been the debate that English is the only language used in ATC, or that the best language for the situation should be used, otherwise, English. I'd love to hear an answer from the source.

As far as what I've heard at KLAS, there was a controller there at the ATCT who would, when a foreign carrier checked in on final, identify himself, and said 'Good morning/Good Afternoon/Good Evening' in the carrier's (pilot's) native language; such as "Aeromexico 6442, Las Vegas Tower, buenos tardes..." Then everything else was in English.

So it really all depends, and it would help to know if any controllers from outside the US are here and could give their insight to this too.

BL.

Offline RobertK

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Re: question about (non-English) language use in ATC
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2007, 05:53:27 PM »
There are actually two main aspects to this.
First, English is not the sole language of aviation. Others are French, Spanish and Russian. So these languages may freely be used for ATC communications (i.e. Spanish controllers using Spanish when talking to Spanish airliners).

Second, for VFR operations there is no language requirement from ICAO at all - thus, most if not all countries will at least allow the use of their language in regards to VFR traffic (i.e. German controllers using German with German VFR pilots - for some airfields, English is not even available).

What is currently changing is that all licensed personnel (like pilots and controllers) will have to meet certain proficiency standards in English.
When, how and how successfully this will be implemented remains to be seen though.

And yes, this stuff does present issues - sometimes deadly, as an accident at Charles de Gaulle airport a few years ago showed (one dead).

Regards,

Robert

« Last Edit: December 20, 2007, 05:55:36 PM by RobertK »

Offline Scrapper

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Re: question about (non-English) language use in ATC
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2008, 05:05:26 PM »
Within the Montreal Flight Information Region, all flight service specialists and controllers (both VFR at the tower and IFR at Montreal Centre) are required to be 100% bilingual and are required to perform the job in both languages. That way, a pilot can choose to address ATS in either French or English (you can listen to this on the CYUL terminal feed on this site... and as you'll notice it's mostly the regional guys that speak french, but some int'l flights like Air France go french as well, because they can).

Offline RV1

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Re: question about (non-English) language use in ATC
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2008, 07:09:42 AM »
http://www.eurocontrol.int/muac/public/faq/jobs_faq.html#qa00

    Try this link for some requirements as ATC in Europe.

Offline Casper87

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Re: question about (non-English) language use in ATC
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2008, 02:50:47 PM »
Yes the English language is the standard ICAO language for use in ATC communications.

And yes some controllers do speak their native language to natiev speaking pilots.
I.e French ATCO to French Pilot....even though this is strictly speaking no legal....it is
allowed. Which is fair enough apart from when their are foriegn pilots on fequency that dont speak the native language.

Dont mean to pick on the French but...as was stated earlier there was an accident a CDG which was Controller error but it probably woudnt have happened had the controller spoke English to all A/c on feq.....becasue it promotes situational awareness. The English pilots didnt know the Air France a/c was departing on the runway they were crossing because the t/o clearence was issued in French. Had it been done in English then the English pilots woud have stopped and questioned the controller, avoiding an accident.

Offline DaytonaAirport

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Re: question about (non-English) language use in ATC
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2009, 03:42:01 AM »
There are actually two main aspects to this.
First, English is not the sole language of aviation. Others are French, Spanish and Russian. So these languages may freely be used for ATC communications (i.e. Spanish controllers using Spanish when talking to Spanish airliners).

Second, for VFR operations there is no language requirement from ICAO at all - thus, most if not all countries will at least allow the use of their language in regards to VFR traffic (i.e. German controllers using German with German VFR pilots - for some airfields, English is not even available).

What is currently changing is that all licensed personnel (like pilots and controllers) will have to meet certain proficiency standards in English.
When, how and how successfully this will be implemented remains to be seen though.

And yes, this stuff does present issues - sometimes deadly, as an accident at Charles de Gaulle airport a few years ago showed (one dead).

Regards,

Robert


How about this: Chinese controllers using Mandarin with Chinese VFR aircraft, since Mandarin is the #1 international language.

Offline lameduck

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Re: question about (non-English) language use in ATC
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2009, 12:34:36 PM »
And yes some controllers do speak their native language to natiev speaking pilots.
I.e French ATCO to French Pilot....even though this is strictly speaking no legal....it is
allowed.

It IS legal! The ICAO requires all pilots and ATC to be able to speak English at a certain level (extended final dealine for language proficiency tests: March 2011). However, language requirements are subject to national law. There are countries which allow the use of English and the national language(s), other countries allow only English and restrict the use of the national language(s) to VFR flights.   

Regards,
lameduck

Offline cessna157

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Re: question about (non-English) language use in ATC
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2009, 06:16:06 PM »
Dont mean to pick on the French but...as was stated earlier there was an accident a CDG which was Controller error but it probably woudnt have happened had the controller spoke English to all A/c on feq.....becasue it promotes situational awareness. The English pilots didnt know the Air France a/c was departing on the runway they were crossing because the t/o clearence was issued in French. Had it been done in English then the English pilots woud have stopped and questioned the controller, avoiding an accident.

I tried making this argument a year or so ago, and I gave up.  No, it is not necessarily required for all to speak english.  But in a multi-lingual environment, situational awareness is lost.

Okay, I'm backing out of this one now.  I know what happened last time.....   :roll:

Offline Casper87

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Re: question about (non-English) language use in ATC
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2009, 02:07:48 PM »
Indeed. It is certainly a subject where you have to tread carefully.

C