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Author Topic: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River  (Read 128550 times)

Offline glencar

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #100 on: January 15, 2009, 11:55:07 PM »
There's no way that flight was talking to NY Center. It wouldn't have been switched until it was around WHITE intersection & near 17,000 feet.

Offline IndyTower

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #101 on: January 16, 2009, 01:25:41 AM »


    EDUCATION
B.S., Psychology – United States Air Force Academy, Colorado
M.S., Industrial Psychology – Purdue University, West Lafayette, Indiana
M.A., Public Administration – University of Northern Colorado, Greeley, Colorado



Went to Purdue...explains why he's so smart.  ;)

In all seriousness though, can't say enough good things about this flight crew and how well this situation turned out.  Truly incredible.  Nice to see a fellow Purdue alum doing such an incredible thing.

Offline SkanknTodd

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #102 on: January 16, 2009, 01:29:57 AM »
Notice that light blue square of wx radar return just southwest of the point where the flight turns towards the river?  I know large flocks of birds can show up on ATC radar... Think this might be the case? Or am I being silly?

Offline Fergalt

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #103 on: January 16, 2009, 04:20:18 AM »
Holy sh*t, take a look at that Passur link, he narrowly avoids a head-on with N461SA coming up the river at 1000ft!

Offline twick

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US Airways em. landing anyone?
« Reply #104 on: January 16, 2009, 05:53:05 AM »
Anyone has recordings of the yesterday's emergency landing of US Airways in NY?

Offline NoMad

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #105 on: January 16, 2009, 06:32:21 AM »
Been a while since I've flown the A320 (5 years or so) but on a dual engine failure you lose both generators and hydraulics. The RAT (Ram Air Turbine) extends beneath the belly providing Hydraulic pressure, electrics are provided by the battery only. Not a good situation... Flight controls go to Direct Law (no computer control) - simular to Manual Reversion. The pilots REALLY had their hand full as this is the worst possible situation to be in.
Couldn't they start the APU?

Offline Steelrman

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #106 on: January 16, 2009, 08:28:13 AM »
I can only imagine what the witnesses must have been thinking when they saw the plane going down. My first thought would have been 9/11 all over again.  :-(

As a matter of fact, when I first heard from a co-worker about a "plane down" yesterday afternoon, that was my first thought before turning on the radio to get the real story.

Offline cessna157

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #107 on: January 16, 2009, 10:31:59 AM »
5) APU, LH ENG, and RH ENG FIRE PUSH - SELECT

Is that APU stop and extinguish?  This looks to be the first step to PUSH TO DISCH, right?

And with no hydraulic pressure from either engine, taking your flaps from 15 (takeoff) to 45 takes a bit, yes? So that assumes the APU is powered up? And last, that's a lot of flaps to have and keep a nose level landing without stalling.


Eh, you're close.  That checklist step secures the engines and APU from fuel, hydraulics, air, and electrics.

Also, on my airplane, and I believe most transport aircraft (except MD-80 series) the flaps are electric.  The APU wouldn't be running, as it wouldn't be needed.  And they had absolutely no time to start it up, as it wouldn't do much for them.

In our double engine failure checklist, it calls for the ADG to be deployed (which is should automatically if we lose all electrics).  Our ADG is a small generator that powers the essential flight computers and electrics, and 1 (out of 6) hydraulic pump.  We would then try to start the APU.  If the APU starts, it will pick up the full electrical load, then we'd use that (or windmill procedure) to restart the engines.  But all of that assumes that you've just had 2 engines flame out.  If you have an engine or engines that are severely damaged, you will never attempt a restart.

But in the time frame that this crew had, they would have no time to run any type of checklist outside of memory items.  Their focus would be to secure the aircraft and prepare aircraft and passengers for ditching.

kevinotto

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #108 on: January 16, 2009, 10:50:15 AM »
Hello all.  This guy really did do one helluvajob!  Has anyone gotten the name of the First Officer?  I haven't heard anyone on the news mention him/her.  I'm sure that he/she had something to do with the outcome of the crash as well.  Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 11:03:14 AM by Themulletburden »

Offline keith

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #109 on: January 16, 2009, 11:10:24 AM »
Whoever the northbound traffic was on the Hudson at 900ft, I give him/her credit for getting out of the way.

Aircraft traversing the corridor self-announce on 123.05.  There's little to no chance the A320 crew would've known this, or had time to find out about it. 

Secondly, while it's very common to see other small aircraft flying over the Hudson at 1000ft, it's very easy to remove the 'big jets' from your visual scan as you see them takeoff out of EWR/LGA/JFK, knowing that they're climbing rapidly, and will remain in the bravo airspace during the departure. 

It may have taken the pilot of the small aircraft/helicopter a few seconds to actually recognize that the A320 was coming head on, and descending.

Brad, I tried monitoring the Hudson freq after the incident to hear the chatter from the blenders, but couldn't hear anything.  I tried TEB tower but could only hear the airborne traffic, not the tower. The flew planes I did hear were not talking about the incident (which makes sense).

Offline tinman4jesus

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #110 on: January 16, 2009, 01:41:32 PM »
There should be a candlelight vigil for the geese.

'All we are saying, is give geese a chance' ♫






How about deleting such insensitive posts!

Offline jsaye1

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #111 on: January 16, 2009, 03:35:33 PM »
there are feeds of the new york fire dept. during the incident at

http://kings.ny.scanamerica.us/index.php

kea001

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #112 on: January 16, 2009, 03:53:41 PM »

How about deleting such insensitive posts!

Sure. No problem. Done.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009, 04:02:31 PM by kea001 »

Offline maydayfire

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #113 on: January 16, 2009, 05:12:11 PM »
no ATC recordings of the incident yet?
thanks

Offline laylow

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #114 on: January 16, 2009, 05:13:33 PM »
Doesn't seem to be.  There is no LGA feed here.

Offline Ion the Sky

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #115 on: January 16, 2009, 10:45:47 PM »
Its amazing in this day and age of video cameras and cell phones with video, no one got a clip of this landing, at least none I've seen on the networks.

Offline tmpd140

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #116 on: January 17, 2009, 11:45:33 AM »
Its amazing in this day and age of video cameras and cell phones with video, no one got a clip of this landing, at least none I've seen on the networks.

Just found this of the landing from a USCG camera on the Hudson...

http://www.break.com/index/raw-footage-hudson-river-plane-crash.html

I think a hats off has to go to the water ferrys that were first on the scene to hook up to the plane and evac the passengers.  Great job by all.....

Offline delta092b

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #117 on: January 17, 2009, 11:59:40 AM »
A slightly better video of the actual touchdown from a side angle can be found here:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/01/17/vo.surveillance.plane.cnn

Offline Eagle 1

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #118 on: January 17, 2009, 05:28:22 PM »
Wow, this video footage is amazing. Still surprised there's no recording from the flight to ATC though. I'm really interested into what happened on the radio after it went down.

Offline glencar

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #119 on: January 17, 2009, 06:33:39 PM »
I haven't heard it myself(I was busy vectoring!) but I've been told that AWE1549 said, "We're landing in the Hudson!" & then it was radio silence for a bit. Both the pilot & the ATC were cool, calm & collected throughout the ordeal.

Offline athaker

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #120 on: January 18, 2009, 12:32:51 AM »
CNN.com reports:

"Earlier in the day, the NTSB revealed the content of communications between the cockpit and controllers at LaGuardia in the brief period during which the incident unfolded.

'This is cactus 1549, hit birds, we lost thrust in both engines,' Sullenberger told controllers at approximately 3:27 p.m. Thursday. 'We're turning back towards LaGuardia.'

Controllers immediately began preparations to clear a runway for an emergency landing, but less than a minute later, Sullenberger reported that the aircraft wouldn't make it, Higgins said.

The last communication from the plane to controllers, Higgins said, was the pilot saying, 'We're gonna be in the Hudson.'"

Full article http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/17/hudson.plane.crash/index.html

Offline athaker

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #121 on: January 18, 2009, 01:09:52 AM »
Sorry for the back to back posts but a couple of questions for you pilots and aeronautic engineers:

1) About ditching procedure.  As far as I understand, you're supposed to remain above stall speed while in the air.  From the nice side view video, although not at all a perfect source, it looked like he was still moving pretty fast, enough for some more yardage in the air.  Also, I assume that an airbus hitting the Hudson stops just like a failed attempt at skipping a rock.  Instead of a nice smooth hydroplane it's gonna be 160 - 0 kts faster than Porsche C4S. My question is why not keep the plane above the water UNTIL stall speed, low enough so that when stall occurs, it settles into the water just below.

I'd speculate it's a tradeoff between the vertical impact of hitting the water after a stall and the horizontal impact of the water bringing the plane to the halt as more of a "landing" angle.  That, or to ditch in a way without breaking off the tail/other part of the fuselage.  Another option is that my logic is silly, wishful thinking, and that trying to hit the stall speed a few feet above the ground is too foolish or nearly impossible, so I should just sit down, eat my peanuts, and let Sully's boys do the piloting. Anybody know?

2) Are wing-mounted engines on any aircraft designed to detach if a certain force (like the Hudson at at nearly 200kts) is exerted?...Kind of like the release mechanism on Type 1 skiers' boots when they take a tumble....to avoid the entire wing or fuselage from being ripped off?

3) Not a question, but while I'm upset airbus hasn't released information about their secret "A-737" plans, I think our European friends over there in design and engineering deserve a handshake as well.



Offline PHL Approach

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #122 on: January 18, 2009, 03:40:51 AM »
Here is A320 procedures for ENG DUAL FAILURE DITCHING. Now for a 737 Classic the QRH mentions "Maintain VREF and 200-300 fpm sink rate to flare". For a 75/76 the QRH states "Maintain airspeed at VREF 30 to touchdown". Unfortunately there is nothing about what speed to Approach for DITCHING in an Airbus. I can only think that it would be VREF just as the 737.

1. ATC/TRANSPONDER...............................................................Notify/As Required
[Notify ATC of the nature of the emergency and state intentions. If not in
contact with air traffic control, switch to code A7700 or transmit a distress
message on one of the following frequencies, (VHF) 121.5 MHz, or (HF if
installed) 2182 KHz or 8364 KHz.]
2. Cabin and Cockpit ......................................................................................Prepare
• notify cabin crew
• loose equipment secured
• survival equipment prepared
• belts and shoulder harness locked
3. GPWS SYS ... OFF
4. GPWS TERR................................................................................................... OFF
[Pressing OFF the SYS and TERR pb’s avoids nuisance warnings.]
5. CABIN SIGNS ...................................................................................................ON
6. EMER EXIT LT ..................................................................................................ON
7. If Commercial pb is installed:
a. COMMERCIAL pb .................................................................................. OFF
If Commercial pb is not installed:
a. GALY & CAB .......................................................................................... OFF
8. LDG ELEV..................................................................................................Select 0
9. BARO ... Set
When below 10000’:
10. CREW OXYGEN MASKS................................................................................ OFF
11. OXYGEN CREW SUPPLY.............................................................................. OFF
Note: Omit normal Descent-Approach and Landing Checklist.
APPROACH
12. L/G Lever...UP
13. SLATS and FLAPS........................................................................... Max Available
At 2000’ AGL:
14. CAB PRESS MODE SEL .................................................................. Check AUTO
[Outflow valve would remain open if MODE SEL were not in AUTO.]
15. BLEEDs (ENGs and APU)............................................................................... OFF
16. DITCHING pb ...ON
Note: If strong winds, ditch into the wind. In the absence of strong winds ditch
parallel to the swells. Touchdown with approximately 11° of pitch and
minimum vertical speed.

Offline emtwillie

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #123 on: January 18, 2009, 06:43:52 PM »
Here is a better camera angla of the landing:

www.floppingaces.net/2009/01/17/video-flight-1549-landing

Offline Hollis

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Re: Plane headed to CLT from LGA down in Hudson River
« Reply #124 on: January 19, 2009, 10:20:40 AM »
Touchdown should always be made above stall speed. Two reasons -  if stalled first, the airplane will pitch nose down and cause a 'brick wall' impact with violent deceleration. Worse yet is the the fact that one wing will drop before impact and that's all she wrote!
One bonus for a low wing airplane is the powerful 'ground effect' (as with an air cushion vehicle), which will actually have the effect of lowering the
wing 'stall' speed by use of the ground cushion under the wings.

(From an old aeronautical flight test engineer (me) that's been there, done that).