Controllers' seating plans

[Jonathan_tcu]

I was listening to my daily cassette recording from 128.3 where as I mention all the time, both northern Ontario Timmins and North Bay sectors are coupled/combined until 7 am Monday.  My fav guy along with 3 other guys rotated throughout the day today.  What I noticed is the hotline that I heard on the air is not the same bubbly / meridian like sound.  It sounded like the hotlines I heard while listening to Peterborough's freq 134.25 back in June, resembles a sick car horn lol.  And, when his mic was keyed open, he was mute for 3 seconds and I could hear other radio freq's buzzing and heard other pilots saying "Flight level three niner zero"  and " Toronto it's Jazz..."  Could it be that the center tries to keep one section open and combines a seating plan for both low and high altitude controllers?

[davys747]

Hi Jonathan,

Im still not quite sure what you are trying to ask but I'll trying and give a description of an ARTCC/TRACON layout and maybe I'll answer your question. Just a quick note, Im going to be using the American system as an example. I don't know how it will translate into the NavCanda stuff.

Most Centers and TRACONs are subdivided into different Areas. Each area owns a portion of the total airspace designated to  that Center or TRACON. Each area has x number of sectors. For example at the Southern Californian TRACON (SoCal), there are 6 Areas (Burbank, Empire, Coast, Departure, (Los Angeles) Arrivals and San Deigo). Each of these areas have about 5 or 6 sectors. For example, Departure has Katalina, Newport, Manhatten, Malibu and Laker.

On the floor itself, there is a scope for each radar sector and the scopes are arranged into areas. Each area has its on area on the floor. Depending on how its layed out, some areas may have scopes next to eachother and some may not. There was a good example of the NY TRACON floorplan that the VATSIM ZNY had on their website but I can't find it anymore.

When they combine a two sectors, you usually have one controller at the scope for one of the positions and he/she works both sectors from there. There would be nobody at the scope next door because that would normally be where the controller of the sector that got combined would be. I have a feeling that the guy/girl working the combined sector would be transmitting on both of the frequencies assigned to the two sectors he/she is working. But if sectors are not combined, you will have controllers who work in the same area sitting side by side which is what you might have heard.

Hope this helps.

David.

[PHL Approach]

Here, just blow it up a few times.

[Jonathan_tcu]

Ah yes.  I always wondered if 2 radar stations or radar scope copy catted or doubled up on 2 work stations whenever a sector split.  I've also tried to follow or guess which guy is working which sector, meaning if I hear someone during our weekday peak time for an hour and he returns 3 hours later, did he/she end up working the adjacent sector? This is what I hear during weekends when 4 freq's are combined, a rotation of 3 people within a 4 hours time frame.  A few months ago, a controller who I listened to keyed his mic and stated "Stand by for a frequency chance.... just as soon as he takes....... the hand off...... there!  Bearskin three seven five, call Toronto on one thirty-five five."  So I know the other sector controller took the radar hand off and would NOT have  if it were an off peak period right?

That floor plan really helped out a lot too.  Helps to understand where everything is.

[Jason]

Here, just blow it up a few times.

Ed--Add 2 PRM scopes next to the JFK SAT.  The consoles are installed, waiting on the screens.

Thanks for the layout...I tried to describe that in as many words in my TRACON visit write-up.

[IndyTower]

Here's a link that has a diagram of C90...Chicago Tracon...
http://www.carmachicago.com/tracon2.htm

And some other interesting content on the Tracon....
http://www.carmachicago.com/tracon.htm

All courtesy of Chicago Area Radio Monitoring Association...
http://www.carmachicago.com/


Matt

[davys747]

I've also tried to follow or guess which guy is working which sector, meaning if I hear someone during our weekday peak time for an hour and he returns 3 hours later, did he/she end up working the adjacent sector?.

Controllers are usually assigned to an area when the join an ARTCC/TRACON. They then learn all of the sectors in that area. And yes, they rotate between each sector during their shift.

A few months ago, a controller who I listened to keyed his mic and stated "Stand by for a frequency chance.... just as soon as he takes....... the hand off...... there!  Bearskin three seven five, call Toronto on one thirty-five five."  So I know the other sector controller took the radar hand off and would NOT have  if it were an off peak period right?

Ummm. Again, I don't really follow your question. Your only going to do a handoff if an aircraft under your control will leave your airspace. If you are working one sector (sector A) during peak time, you handoff your aircraft to the next controller, who may, for example, be sitting next to you (at sector B). When it comes to off peak, you might be working that same sector and the one next to it ie Both sectors A and B. In this case you obviously don't need to handoff any aircraft until they are about to depart the combined airspace as aposed to having to hand aircraft off before they entered sector B.

[Jonathan_tcu]

That makes sense.  I just assumed that each center's radar scope only had ONE scope per sector.  Before you guys helped answer my questions, I had the most bizzare imaginations on how the center's seating plans was arranged.   When sectors split up during peak periods, like some people have told me, the new guy setting up a radar scope will login the sector required.  I often hear the controllers here for Timmins/Moose and North Bay/Sudbury mentioning during their peak periods, they both see the same on both radar screens, one feeding from North Bay and another from Hearst Ontario.  Am I right about this?-- two scopes doubled up on one sector?

[davys747]

They will both get the same radar feed displayed on the scope. I know in New Zealand that all of the radar (even in the Tower) get exactly the same feed which means if I wanted to see how busy Christchurch was (other end of the country for those who aren't familiar), all I would do is move the screen down until i found that area.

What is displayed differently are the lines that represent airspace boundaries, specific landmarks etc. If you have a hi/low split, the relative airspace is approximately the same so you will see the same radar feed ie aircraft, however, the hi alt sector may not have any landmarks shown, (they don't need them), and the low alt guy might. Both controllers would have different airspace boundaries so that would also be different.

[Jonathan_tcu]

I Just thought each radar scope was fixed on one specific sector.  Is that possible for even original or older radar scopes to scan more than just one sector?  And in some centers, I assume the guys who either link up or split up the freq's, are moving the flight plan progress strips too from one radar work station to another.

[davys747]

Yes I think you'll find that there is one scope per sector. Obviously this would be required if you wanted to have all of your available sectors open at the same time.

Im not a real controller but Im guessing you can display more than one sector on your scope at the same time.

Is that possible for even original or older radar scopes to scan more than just one sector?

The scopes have nothing to do with the scanning of sector airspace. Scopes display fixes, airspace boundaries, landmarks, runway centerlines etc that are based on lat/longs coordinates. How aircraft positions are transfered to the scopes im not sure but everything (Im guessing) is all relative. As far as I know, aircraft positions are triangulated by several radar stations. Its possible that positions are translated into lat/long coordinates and placed onto the scopes, im not sure.

[davolijj]

As far as I know, aircraft positions are triangulated by several radar stations. Its possible that positions are translated into lat/long coordinates and placed onto the scopes, im not sure.

In the terminal enviroment, except in the case of multi radar mode, the radar source is usually one Airport Survaillance Radar (ASR).  En Route centers use a system called the Mosaic system which uses multiple long range radar sites as their source.

As for configuration of different sectors, I'm not sure about the En Route process but terminal facilities and TRACons use the radar offset funtion to initially set up each position.  The Automation functions such as track association, handoffs, automated point-outs, tab lists, strip management, etc., are all accomplished through configuration function commands.

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