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Air Traffic Monitoring => Listener Forum => Topic started by: dorishd on November 15, 2007, 05:08:41 PM

Title: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: dorishd on November 15, 2007, 05:08:41 PM
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/652270,nearmiss111507.article


I like the headline " Pilots avoid near-miss collision..."

Doesn't that mean they DID collide :roll:
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: chefnoel on November 15, 2007, 07:01:34 PM
It was not a near-miss it was a near-hit.
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: LAPTOP GAMER on November 15, 2007, 09:45:54 PM
Well bottom line is the system can't handle all were throwing at it and it is a matter of time before something bad happens. I think deregulation and cheaper airfares have done more to hurt air travel than anything as safety margins are thin. I say raise ticket prices and stop over booking flights, fly larger air craft(less planes in the sky) and safety would improve.
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: tyketto on November 15, 2007, 10:04:33 PM
Well bottom line is the system can't handle all were throwing at it and it is a matter of time before something bad happens. I think deregulation and cheaper airfares have done more to hurt air travel than anything as safety margins are thin. I say raise ticket prices and stop over booking flights, fly larger air craft(less planes in the sky) and safety would improve.

Actually, more controllers are needed, instead of overtaxing the ones that are still there, while a fair number of them are quitting or exercising their right to retire. Less controllers = more time needed by current controllers = overtime = fatigue = deals.

BL.
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: ogogog on November 15, 2007, 10:29:47 PM
thats nothing , ive seen them sweep worst deals than that under the carpet.
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: tyketto on November 16, 2007, 12:06:40 AM
thats nothing , ive seen them sweep worst deals than that under the carpet.

this may be true, but the problem is when the media get hold of it and run with it up and down every flagpole in the country. I wouldn't be surprised if this was used as rationale for the 'express lane' and more fodder to get rid of GA (even though this didn't have anything to do with GA).

BL.
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: LAPTOP GAMER on November 16, 2007, 02:10:29 AM
Well bottom line is the system can't handle all were throwing at it and it is a matter of time before something bad happens. I think deregulation and cheaper airfares have done more to hurt air travel than anything as safety margins are thin. I say raise ticket prices and stop over booking flights, fly larger air craft(less planes in the sky) and safety would improve.

Actually, more controllers are needed, instead of overtaxing the ones that are still there, while a fair number of them are quitting or exercising their right to retire. Less controllers = more time needed by current controllers = overtime = fatigue = deals.

BL.



That is the other part of the problem I forgot to mention, you are asking a human being to perform at 100% all of the time thus increasing the risk of error. They need more controllers.
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: ogogog on November 16, 2007, 08:52:40 AM
what are you people HI or something, marion blakey said that there is no controller shortage, she said the the right people will be in the right places at the right time. are you folks calling her a lier?
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: KSYR-pjr on November 16, 2007, 08:56:52 AM
what are you people HI or something

Hi!!!!
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: cactushp on November 16, 2007, 09:38:04 AM
what are you people HI or something, marion blakey said that there is no controller shortage, she said the the right people will be in the right places at the right time. are you folks calling her a lier?

Umm....yes.
Look at: http://data.gannettnewsservice.com/airtraffic/airindex1.php
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: ogogog on November 16, 2007, 11:10:39 AM
looks like i hooked another one
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: tyketto on November 16, 2007, 01:35:52 PM
what are you people HI or something, marion blakey said that there is no controller shortage, she said the the right people will be in the right places at the right time. are you folks calling her a lier?

and she is where now?

If we could, we'd all be HI. But depending on what sector we could run, we'd be LO as well. ;)

BL.
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: maddogatc on November 22, 2007, 01:09:36 AM
Is anyone here a controller at a large facility?  It appears from some of the comments that no one talking about these situations actually does the job.  The situation is a lot more complex than all the trivialities and major problems the system is enduring when you look at them one at a time.
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: ogogog on November 22, 2007, 12:54:03 PM
i spent 20 years at ZAU and now iam at C90, that big enough for you?
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: RV1 on November 23, 2007, 07:14:44 AM


Is anyone here a controller at a large facility?  It appears from some of the comments that no one talking about these situations actually does the job.  The situation is a lot more complex than all the trivialities and major problems the system is enduring when you look at them one at a time.


Define 'large facility'.    One with a huge building with a lot of square feet? One with too many controllers pushing 300 lbs?  Or one with the cab space for 5 or more controllers at any given time?  Additionally, are the only controllers who count the ones working at a seven or higher facility, or perhaps a nine. Point is, if I see a policeman in a town of 20,000 versus one in a city of 1.5 million, he's still a cop.
     The problems at hand are: increasing traffic, reduced staffing, low morale, poor management practises, mandatory overtime, and the hard to believe-- human error factor.
     Controllers aren't the only ones under pressure. We've had more airline captains recently start argueing with controllers at my facility than ever before in my career. I'm sure that they are being forced to 'do more with less' as we are.
     
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: MathFox on November 23, 2007, 09:42:56 AM
Quote
Controllers aren't the only ones under pressure. We've had more airline captains recently start argueing with controllers at my facility than ever before in my career. I'm sure that they are being forced to 'do more with less' as we are.
Another explanation would be that pilots perceive a "decline in service" and complain because of that. You give all the arguments why service is declining.
What worries me is that there is no quick way out of the hole, even with excellent management it takes several years to achieve proper levels of qualified ATC; training takes time.
Title: Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
Post by: zmeatc on November 23, 2007, 04:04:18 PM
Is anyone here a controller at a large facility?  It appears from some of the comments that no one talking about these situations actually does the job.  The situation is a lot more complex than all the trivialities and major problems the system is enduring when you look at them one at a time.

I'm at Memphis Center. The same Memphis center that had 6 deals in 6 days in Aug. Then lost all radio's in sept.