Author Topic: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace  (Read 10361 times)

Offline dorishd

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near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« on: November 15, 2007, 05:08:41 PM »
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/652270,nearmiss111507.article


I like the headline " Pilots avoid near-miss collision..."

Doesn't that mean they DID collide :roll:
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 05:23:01 PM by dorishd »



Offline chefnoel

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2007, 07:01:34 PM »
It was not a near-miss it was a near-hit.

Offline LAPTOP GAMER

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2007, 09:45:54 PM »
Well bottom line is the system can't handle all were throwing at it and it is a matter of time before something bad happens. I think deregulation and cheaper airfares have done more to hurt air travel than anything as safety margins are thin. I say raise ticket prices and stop over booking flights, fly larger air craft(less planes in the sky) and safety would improve.

Offline tyketto

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2007, 10:04:33 PM »
Well bottom line is the system can't handle all were throwing at it and it is a matter of time before something bad happens. I think deregulation and cheaper airfares have done more to hurt air travel than anything as safety margins are thin. I say raise ticket prices and stop over booking flights, fly larger air craft(less planes in the sky) and safety would improve.

Actually, more controllers are needed, instead of overtaxing the ones that are still there, while a fair number of them are quitting or exercising their right to retire. Less controllers = more time needed by current controllers = overtime = fatigue = deals.

BL.

Offline ogogog

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2007, 10:29:47 PM »
thats nothing , ive seen them sweep worst deals than that under the carpet.

Offline tyketto

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2007, 12:06:40 AM »
thats nothing , ive seen them sweep worst deals than that under the carpet.

this may be true, but the problem is when the media get hold of it and run with it up and down every flagpole in the country. I wouldn't be surprised if this was used as rationale for the 'express lane' and more fodder to get rid of GA (even though this didn't have anything to do with GA).

BL.

Offline LAPTOP GAMER

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2007, 02:10:29 AM »
Well bottom line is the system can't handle all were throwing at it and it is a matter of time before something bad happens. I think deregulation and cheaper airfares have done more to hurt air travel than anything as safety margins are thin. I say raise ticket prices and stop over booking flights, fly larger air craft(less planes in the sky) and safety would improve.

Actually, more controllers are needed, instead of overtaxing the ones that are still there, while a fair number of them are quitting or exercising their right to retire. Less controllers = more time needed by current controllers = overtime = fatigue = deals.

BL.



That is the other part of the problem I forgot to mention, you are asking a human being to perform at 100% all of the time thus increasing the risk of error. They need more controllers.

Offline ogogog

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2007, 08:52:40 AM »
what are you people HI or something, marion blakey said that there is no controller shortage, she said the the right people will be in the right places at the right time. are you folks calling her a lier?

Offline KSYR-pjr

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2007, 08:56:52 AM »
what are you people HI or something

Hi!!!!
Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY

Offline cactushp

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2007, 09:38:04 AM »
what are you people HI or something, marion blakey said that there is no controller shortage, she said the the right people will be in the right places at the right time. are you folks calling her a lier?

Umm....yes.
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Offline ogogog

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2007, 11:10:39 AM »
looks like i hooked another one

Offline tyketto

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2007, 01:35:52 PM »
what are you people HI or something, marion blakey said that there is no controller shortage, she said the the right people will be in the right places at the right time. are you folks calling her a lier?

and she is where now?

If we could, we'd all be HI. But depending on what sector we could run, we'd be LO as well. ;)

BL.

Offline maddogatc

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2007, 01:09:36 AM »
Is anyone here a controller at a large facility?  It appears from some of the comments that no one talking about these situations actually does the job.  The situation is a lot more complex than all the trivialities and major problems the system is enduring when you look at them one at a time.

Offline ogogog

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2007, 12:54:03 PM »
i spent 20 years at ZAU and now iam at C90, that big enough for you?

Offline RV1

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2007, 07:14:44 AM »


Is anyone here a controller at a large facility?  It appears from some of the comments that no one talking about these situations actually does the job.  The situation is a lot more complex than all the trivialities and major problems the system is enduring when you look at them one at a time.


Define 'large facility'.    One with a huge building with a lot of square feet? One with too many controllers pushing 300 lbs?  Or one with the cab space for 5 or more controllers at any given time?  Additionally, are the only controllers who count the ones working at a seven or higher facility, or perhaps a nine. Point is, if I see a policeman in a town of 20,000 versus one in a city of 1.5 million, he's still a cop.
     The problems at hand are: increasing traffic, reduced staffing, low morale, poor management practises, mandatory overtime, and the hard to believe-- human error factor.
     Controllers aren't the only ones under pressure. We've had more airline captains recently start argueing with controllers at my facility than ever before in my career. I'm sure that they are being forced to 'do more with less' as we are.
     
Kick butt, take no names, they dont matter anyways

Offline MathFox

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2007, 09:42:56 AM »
Quote
Controllers aren't the only ones under pressure. We've had more airline captains recently start argueing with controllers at my facility than ever before in my career. I'm sure that they are being forced to 'do more with less' as we are.
Another explanation would be that pilots perceive a "decline in service" and complain because of that. You give all the arguments why service is declining.
What worries me is that there is no quick way out of the hole, even with excellent management it takes several years to achieve proper levels of qualified ATC; training takes time.

Offline zmeatc

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Re: near mid-air collision - chicago center airspace
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2007, 04:04:18 PM »
Is anyone here a controller at a large facility?  It appears from some of the comments that no one talking about these situations actually does the job.  The situation is a lot more complex than all the trivialities and major problems the system is enduring when you look at them one at a time.

I'm at Memphis Center. The same Memphis center that had 6 deals in 6 days in Aug. Then lost all radio's in sept.