LiveATC Discussion Forums
Air Traffic Monitoring => Listener Forum => Topic started by: HeathrowATC on August 29, 2007, 02:57:56 PM
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Hey Guys is it illegal or legal to broadcast Live Heathrow web cam feed via a webcam.
I live 15 Nm from EGLL and i get at least 1 A/c every 40 seconds go over my house.
Is it legal or illegal to do this.
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This is a good question, and to be honest, I don't know. I do know it is illegal to rebroadcast ATC comms, but I don't know about a silent webcam (assuming there is no ATC coming through via audio on the cam).
the only thing I can suggest is to have a look at OFCOM and see what they say there.
http://www.ofcom.org.uk (http://www.ofcom.org.uk)
You may also want to look at the various British Telephony Acts over there (1949, 2004, etc) to see what they may have to say.
YMMV, IANAL, IDK, FDIC, NCUA, ERA, NASA, and various other useless anagrams apply. :)
BL.
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Hey Guys is it illegal or legal to broadcast Live Heathrow web cam feed via a webcam.
I live 15 Nm from EGLL and i get at least 1 A/c every 40 seconds go over my house.
Is it legal or illegal to do this.
Nope it's not illegal because the aircraft and buildings can be seen from a public area.
For example, I am able to photograph any person or any building (or any object for that matter) as long as i'm not portraying them in a way that's otherwise contrary, causing harassment or harm, or trespassing on any public property in order to obtain the image.
So, if you can see the airport or aircraft with your naked eye from a location that is either a public place/place of residence/or property of which you are granted permission to access, then legally you're allowed to take videos/photographs and do whatever you want with them (as long as it is in a way that won't jeopardize national security) as legally you own the content.
However, I am aware that it is against the law to take photographs of any buildings belonging to the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority). But I believe this just counts for their actual buildings (such as control centers) rather than Airports and Aircraft which belong to private companies (BAA, British Airways etc. for example).
So if you were to set up a webcam and point it up at the sky then stream it to the internet, well there's nothing really stopping you as what i said above applies to both photographs and videos.
Also, there's plenty of video action going on from UK airports over at flightlevel350.com.
Well, this is my understanding with being in the media industry. However, i'm open to be corrected. :-)
.mark
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Considering how many cameras there are over there invading your privacy, you would think you'd have a right to point a camera at the open sky. :-)
I would be surprised if there is a law prohibiting what you want to do, but you better check the books. Or just try it and see who complains. I would hope they would have better things to spend their time on.
Dave
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Considering how many cameras there are over there invading your privacy, you would think you'd have a right to point a camera at the open sky. :-)
I would be surprised if there is a law prohibiting what you want to do, but you better check the books. Or just try it and see who complains. I would hope they would have better things to spend their time on.
Dave
If someone were to complain the most that will happen is ofcom, NATS or the CAA getting in contact with you asking to discontinue the webcam. They may perform a background check just to make sure you're legit, but hey. who hasn't had one of these done in this day and age?
I say give it a go! There aren't enough aviation webcams around now days.
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I don't think the BAA or the CAA or NATS would tell a 14 year old boy to stop poiting a camera at the sky.
If they did i would write to every paper in the world. :-D
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I don't think the BAA or the CAA or NATS would tell a 14 year old boy to stop poiting a camera at the sky.
If they did i would write to every paper in the world. :-D
In which case, go for it! And be sure to send us a link this way too when the webcam is up and running.
And if they do start complaining, indeed go to the papers! :-) Maybe it'll increase the publicty about getting the age old law preventing the monitoring of ATC communications in the UK.
.mark
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No offence to germans in any way but if it wasnt for that stupid hitler trust me i think we could well be listening to EGLL and EGKK Trust me and i mean know.
Was there a live feed and i BTW there is one out there like freewebs.com
but i wonder if someone has set up a private one aswell.
If i wanted to i could put live atc what of on msn messenger but i wont.
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Well is it illegal??? I'm not sure. I live about 9 nautical miles away, but a plane doesnt go over my house that often. depeneds on 9 or 27 landings. But everyone really wants a heathrow feed atc - is it illegal for me to pick up one - or am i too far away??
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Well is it illegal??? I'm not sure. [...] - is it illegal for me to pick up one - or am i too far away??
Please read the FAQ: http://www.liveatc.net/forums/index.php/topic,2967.0.html (http://www.liveatc.net/forums/index.php/topic,2967.0.html)
Yes, even listening is illegal. And Dave won't do UK feeds until you change that stupid law.
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Although I will reconsider this from time to time. Since the feeds here are used for educational purposes we may be able to get a waiver. If not, we'll list them and tag them as "for educational use only." If the authorities choose to take some kind of action, we'll just deal with them - or not. After all, we're not under their jurisdiction. I do this merely out of respect for their *local* laws, which don't remotely apply to me or LiveATC.net.
Dave
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Although I will reconsider this from time to time. Since the feeds here are used for educational purposes we may be able to get a waiver. If not, we'll list them and tag them as "for educational use only." If the authorities choose to take some kind of action, we'll just deal with them - or not. After all, we're not under their jurisdiction. I do this merely out of respect for their *local* laws, which don't remotely apply to me or LiveATC.net.
Dave
At the end of the day I really cannot see the law in the UK changing any time soon. There's just no real out cry by avaition radio enthusiasts over here because they listen anyways with the hobby having a blind eye turned to it.
I've wondered about liveatc.net tip-toeing over these laws in order to provide a feed located in the UK.
Like you said, there's the whole 'educational purposes' scenario and the fact you're not governed by UK laws.
Remember DX tuners? They had a scanner based at London Gatwick (EGKK) and other UK airports for years. The way I think they got around it is that they either ignored the requests from NATS or it had to do something with the scanner being able to be controlled by users.
I think the lame-mans perception from the website is that they were streaming from a scanner that SO happens to be located near Gatwick Airport and users were able to 'control the scanner and stumble upon' the Tower Freq's.
Maybe someone, i.e. dave can be the person who has remote access to the scanner which so happens to be located somewhere near say Heathrow Airport, where he stumbles across the Tower Freqs on a computer located in the US which so happens streams content to Liveatc.net
(Of course, you don't actually have to do this. Tis' just a cover story if NATS come a knocking. :wink:)
But yes. My two cents are, of course! have a go at streaming the UK feeds and see what happens in terms of the authorities contacting you. And if things to get 'out of hand' you can always pull the feed.
.mark
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Hey Guys is it illegal or legal to broadcast Live Heathrow web cam feed via a webcam.
I live 15 Nm from EGLL and i get at least 1 A/c every 40 seconds go over my house.
Is it legal or illegal to do this.
I also live under the flight path (15 nm from 9L)
Are you talking 27 or 9 runways ?
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My bottom dollar is you could set up a secret area for it and no harm done with password access to listen and that should stop people listening and you have to be a liveatc.net member.
As there is what we call in London "Snitches" people who tell people what they did or was doing.
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Do it!
Get your listener ( Airband radio, if you own one ) on the go aswell. And have it on with the cam feed with some delay if you can. As long as the ATC r/t aint live then its legal to broadcast i think. And as you said bout a password, it would prove that the information is secure.
Safe :mrgreen:
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Does anyone know for sure how DX Tunners managed to get round the law in UK??
Would be interesting to know, and see if that could be done here as well
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I've been working on a website to feed live images of 27R.
I spoke with someone in BAA and they confirmed that as long as the photos are taken from my property then I can do what I like with them. A guy at the CAA said pretty much the same.
My site is heathrowcam.net
Please let me know what you think.
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..Great pics..very good detail..and a huge range of interesting aircraft.
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Cool! Thanks for the comment. I had some technical difficulties today so may have missed a few aircraft. I think it's the birds in the field setting the camera off...pesky wood pigeons.
I had 2 new users sign up but they didn't log any photos. Need to click the log button. Return/Enter doesn't work yet.
It's looking good for 27R 7am to 3pm 20th August with wind direction good and partly cloudy. Should get some good shots.
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I've made a few improvements to the site. You now have the option of using the Java zoom or just a JPEG.
heathrowcam.net (http://heathrowcam.net) for main website
heathrowcam.net/webcam.php (http://heathrowcam.net/webcam.php) for splash page
20000 hits today and that's without live photos; approach is on 09L at the moment but the wind is gradually coming around to westerlies.