Author Topic: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC  (Read 1106 times)

Offline diskus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« on: March 15, 2019, 10:51:50 AM »
HI all,

Ive been listening to this feed lately which handles the traffic leaving and returning to the Bay Area over the Pacific. On the list of frequencies for the feed it includes ARINC San Francisco 131.95. I realize the planes are too far out to hear by that point but was hoping to pick up some of the ARINC Controllers when the flight is handed off from Norcal. You can hear that hand off request from NORCAL. However I have yet to be able to hear any of the ARINC Controllers, Has anyone else ever heard any of them?

Thanks!!!



Offline JetScan1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 910
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2019, 11:37:43 AM »
I seem to recall that when the feed first came out you could hear the ARINC operator loud and clear. You could hear them giving out the HF frequency assignments. Then it just stopped quite awhile ago.  Although this may have been replaced by using datalink now, although I have not seen any messages ? I'm guessing 131.950 was removed from the feed ? It would be nice to have it back on or better yet a dedicated feed.

JS   

Offline diskus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2019, 07:38:29 PM »
Yes It seems it is no longer active somehow. Yes I agree it would be good to have it back online

found some info on the ARINC  https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/systemops/ato_intl/documents/cross_polar/CPWG20/CPWG20_ARINC_Update.pdf

Thanks!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 08:45:47 PM by diskus »

Offline Fryy

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 547
    • CalAggieFlyers
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2019, 01:31:43 AM »
Yes It seems it is no longer active somehow. Yes I agree it would be good to have it back online

found some info on the ARINC  https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/systemops/ato_intl/documents/cross_polar/CPWG20/CPWG20_ARINC_Update.pdf

Thanks!

Thanks for sharing that. HF monitoring is one thing I know nothing about but have always been interested in. Seeing this PDF just made me realize what at least one of these antennas is in my hometown. Just outside of town, just SW of Travis AFB is this massive antenna farm that's been said to be old Naval Radio Relays. What exactly is an LDOC? Would being within 10 miles of this help in any reception on HF?

Offline RonR

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 964
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2019, 10:41:48 AM »
LDOC stands for Long Distance Operational Control and I believe uses these HF frequencies: 3494 6640 8933 11342 13348 17925 21964

They are used among other things for setting up company phone patches with an in-flight aircraft.  They are not used for typical ATC related communications such as issuing a route clearance, aircraft requesting an altitude change, weather deviation, etc.

Here's chart that you might find interesting:

Ron
Feed Provider:
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 1
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 2
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 3
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 4
ZBW (CLIPR32/HTO31)
ZBW (DXR19/SOUTHIE49)
KLGA Gnd
KLGA Dep
KLGA Twr
NY App (Liberty/North)
KLGA App (HAARP)
KLGA Del/ARINC/TCA

Offline diskus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2019, 12:41:33 AM »
I do hear NorCal handing off to Arinc San Francisco, but I dont recall ever hearing them giving a frequency. Are the planes not establishing initial contact by voice with ARINC?

Offline RonR

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 964
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2019, 08:01:30 AM »
They should be contacting ARINC as soon as they are handed off so that they can give their initial position report estimates, get their enroute HF frequencies, etc.

Over here in New York I hear them getting handed off from ZNY 133.5 to ARINC 129.9 and ATC always gives the frequency.

I would assume that the procedure would be the same on the west coast.

Ron
Feed Provider:
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 1
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 2
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 3
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 4
ZBW (CLIPR32/HTO31)
ZBW (DXR19/SOUTHIE49)
KLGA Gnd
KLGA Dep
KLGA Twr
NY App (Liberty/North)
KLGA App (HAARP)
KLGA Del/ARINC/TCA

Offline RonR

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 964
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2019, 10:48:45 AM »
Hello again diskus,

Well, I took some time and listened in to ZOA 35...and it turns out you were right.  ZOA (Oakland Center, not NORCAL) simply tells westbound flights "radar service terminated, frequency change approved" and does not provide a frequency for ARINC.  This happened three times in the short time I was listening.  The pilots must already know what the ARINC frequency will be when they exit ZOA airspace.

And I also didn't hear any of the aircraft acknowledge ZOA's 'handoff' message so clearly they were already too far away to be heard by that feed radio.  And needless to say, I also didn't hear anything on the ARINC frequency.

Ron
Feed Provider:
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 1
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 2
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 3
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 4
ZBW (CLIPR32/HTO31)
ZBW (DXR19/SOUTHIE49)
KLGA Gnd
KLGA Dep
KLGA Twr
NY App (Liberty/North)
KLGA App (HAARP)
KLGA Del/ARINC/TCA

Offline diskus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2019, 11:33:09 AM »
I have heard the same. ZOA uses the language you stated and at other times " Radar services terminated, contact San Francisco ARINC"  or something like "contact enroute communications" again without frequency. At times I have picked up a very faint reply by the plane.   but never  anything from ARINC to follow
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 11:35:45 AM by diskus »

Offline diskus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2019, 07:41:29 PM »


Over here in New York I hear them getting handed off from ZNY 133.5 to ARINC 129.9 and ATC always gives the frequency.



Hi Ron,

Is there a feed with those 2? I cant seem to find 129.9?

Mike

Offline RonR

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 964
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2019, 08:35:13 PM »
Hi Mike,

Yes, the ARINC frequencies can be found here:

https://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=kjfk

It will be at the top of the list.  Unfortunately, they are currently down and unavailable.  Hopefully they'll be bck up soon.

Ron
Feed Provider:
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 1
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 2
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 3
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 4
ZBW (CLIPR32/HTO31)
ZBW (DXR19/SOUTHIE49)
KLGA Gnd
KLGA Dep
KLGA Twr
NY App (Liberty/North)
KLGA App (HAARP)
KLGA Del/ARINC/TCA

Offline diskus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2019, 08:37:59 PM »
Thanks!

Offline RonR

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 964
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2019, 10:40:21 PM »
No problem!
Feed Provider:
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 1
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 2
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 3
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 4
ZBW (CLIPR32/HTO31)
ZBW (DXR19/SOUTHIE49)
KLGA Gnd
KLGA Dep
KLGA Twr
NY App (Liberty/North)
KLGA App (HAARP)
KLGA Del/ARINC/TCA

Offline RonR

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 964
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2019, 09:37:03 PM »
Mike:

In case you weren't aware, the NY ARINC feeds are back online.

Ron
Feed Provider:
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 1
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 2
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 3
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 4
ZBW (CLIPR32/HTO31)
ZBW (DXR19/SOUTHIE49)
KLGA Gnd
KLGA Dep
KLGA Twr
NY App (Liberty/North)
KLGA App (HAARP)
KLGA Del/ARINC/TCA

Offline diskus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2019, 09:39:48 PM »
I have been listening, very very busy. It would be great to gave the pacific version back

Offline diskus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2019, 07:18:51 PM »
I just happened to be listening to the ZOA 35 feed last night. One of the planes reached the limit of the ZOA controllers area heading out over the Pacific and was told "frequency change approved"  for the crossing. Surprisingly I was able to hear the planes reply that far out. He asked "can you confirm the frequency as..."  he gave a HF frequency which I dont recall. The ZOA controller replied that she would call San Francisco ARINC and confirm. She came back and gave a primary and secondary HF frequency to the pilot who thanked her.   From all this it seems the pilots may be switching directly to a HF frequency upon reaching the ZOA limit rather than using 131.95.  OR am I reading this wrong? Maybe this is why we do not here ARINC on the feed at 131.95, I dont recall exact numbers but I believe the HF frequencies given may conform with those found here https://radio.arinc.net/pacific/
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 08:17:30 PM by diskus »

Offline JetScan1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 910
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2019, 08:57:53 PM »
Quote
I just happened to be listening to the ZOA 35 feed last night.

What approximate time was this ? We can listen to off the archives.

Offline diskus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2019, 09:25:46 PM »
I was just trying to do so. I actually dont recall the time. I had the feed on for quite a while. Ill try and locate it.

Offline JetScan1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 910
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2019, 10:09:06 PM »
On the archive from last night starting at 07:03:24 UTC (April 03) you can hear a China Southern flight asking Oakland to confirm the HF frequencies, the Oakland controller instructs them to contact ARINC on 131.950 to get the frequencies. Nothing further heard. Audio clip attached (edited to remove silences).

Offline diskus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2019, 10:23:05 PM »
Thats a great find. Its not the controller i heard but the first time i noticed that frequency mentioned. Right near the end of the 0200z archive you can hear the female controller give out HF frequencies. Its not the instance I mentioned earler but similar. Ill eventually find that one.

Offline JetScan1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 910
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2019, 11:32:29 PM »
Attached is another clip with another China Southern flight given 131.95, then later when it's not as busy the controller giving an EVA flight the HF frequencies directly when asked.

It is rather odd that it's a standard procedure to not to give the frequency on the handoff. It seems most pilots are aware to call 131.95 but I see it catches a few off guard.

I checked NOTAMS and the daily NOPAC track message and can't find any reference to it. Maybe written on the Jepp charts or on the flightplan or company route manual ? The only reference I could find was on that ARINC website (posted above).
 
Quote
*Flights may call on-ground VHF for HF frequency assignments at the designated gateways or on the extended range VHF when airborne.

I suspect some of the LAX and SFO flights are probably calling ARINC VHF on the ground before they depart. Anyone running a feed near LAX (131.950) or SFO (130.400 and 131.950) who could add these frequencies for a short term test for a couple of days ?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2019, 09:41:52 AM by JetScan1 »

Offline diskus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2019, 11:33:22 PM »
Anyway seems my idea is not supported as assuming these pilots did call 131.95 after directed, there is no sign that the feed is picking it up. So seems others may call as well.

Offline RonR

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 964
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2019, 07:06:38 AM »
Hey Mike,

I received an email about your ARINC question but for some reason it didn't show up here in this thread.  Not sure what that's all about...

Anyway, ZNY 133.5 hands off to NY ARINC.  Do a search for ZDC on the main liveatc page and the feed that provides ZNY 133.5 will be listed at the top of the page.  Sorry, for some reason my old iPad won't let me copy and paste the link...maybe it's time to upgrade?

Ron
Feed Provider:
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 1
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 2
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 3
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 4
ZBW (CLIPR32/HTO31)
ZBW (DXR19/SOUTHIE49)
KLGA Gnd
KLGA Dep
KLGA Twr
NY App (Liberty/North)
KLGA App (HAARP)
KLGA Del/ARINC/TCA

Offline RonR

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 964
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2019, 07:26:59 AM »
Just thought of another feed that might interest you.  Mornings is usually a great time to listen to Shannon High Control #1.  At this time of day there are numerous westbound flights from Europe making their way over Ireland towards the Atlantic Ocean for the crossing.  On this feed you'll hear Shannon Control handing off to and providing HF frequencies for Shanwick.  Flights communicate with Shanwick until they reach 30 degrees west.  After that, they are handled by Gander Oceanic.

This feed also includes a VHF frequecy for Shanwick on which you'll hear some activity from time to time.

It's a great feed with excellent quality audio from both ATC and aircraft.

Just do a search for EINN and look for Shannon High Control in the list.  This is one of my new favorite feeds to listen to  :-D

Ron
Feed Provider:
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 1
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 2
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 3
ZBW/ZNY/ZDC (JFK Area) 4
ZBW (CLIPR32/HTO31)
ZBW (DXR19/SOUTHIE49)
KLGA Gnd
KLGA Dep
KLGA Twr
NY App (Liberty/North)
KLGA App (HAARP)
KLGA Del/ARINC/TCA

Offline diskus

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: KSFO ZOA (35) Feed ARINC
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2019, 09:14:52 AM »
Thanks!  I deleted my post because I realized the answer had been given in an earlier reply above. 133.5 is exactly what i was looking for. Ill give Shannon a try as well