Author Topic: Is this really live?  (Read 20362 times)

Offline rool4ever

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Is this really live?
« on: March 05, 2005, 07:43:04 PM »
Hey all,
For the U.S. feeds, isn't there a delay of 5 mins enforced by the FAA for ATC radio? I doubt this regulation is in place with Canadian feeds.

Thanks
Rahul



Offline Jason

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Is this really live?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2005, 07:53:14 PM »
Not that I know of...I host BDR and compared what someone said and then brought up the feed and it timed in at a 30 or so second delay.

I have not heard of a delay of such.  If it was, you would see it enforced a lot more.

Offline rool4ever

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yeah
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2005, 08:07:06 PM »
Yeah thats true and the FAA would have taken down this site had that been strongly enforced. However I saw the regulation info it on this site: http://www.atcmonitor.com/ which has live ATC audio of the Atlanta, Georgia Airport.  And also why there is a 30 second delay between the feed and what someone said?

Offline LORm

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Is this really live?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2005, 09:34:59 PM »
Thought the 5 min regulation was for any type of radar image feed.

Offline Robin Rebhan

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Re: Delay
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2005, 12:12:24 PM »
Not that our Gov't isn't capable of coming up with senseless regulations and laws   :wink:  
    I can't understand why there would be a delay requirement. If homeland security was the issue. All the baddies would have to do is monitor a scanner live or get a aviation radio. Or just sit along the flight path and watch.
     Robin Rebhan
     KALB Feeder
WILL WORK FOR FLIGHT TIME!

Offline dave

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Is this really live?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2005, 08:00:59 PM »
Rahul-

There is no such regulation.  I don't know where you get your information or why you're even asking about this.  Live means live (except for the encoding/decoding delay).  And I don't mean to attack you personally (I'm not) but just about every day there seems to be someone writing in panicked about such nonsensical matters.  And you just happened to catch me at exactly the wrong time.  This site's main purpose is to serve as a source of training for existing and would-be pilots, to better their communication skills.  Some folks use it as a source of entertainment, and that's fine too.

Some people just seem to think that because they can hear pilots and air traffic controllers talking that it's a "security issue."  What is that issue?  Nobody can ever seem to articulate it.  You know why?  It doesn't exist.

For those out there who suffer from this afflication...stop sitting around fearing every move you make in society.  If you know you're not doing anything wrong, then stand by your convictions and move on with your life.

Sorry to have to use this thread to vent, Rahul.  Again, this is not directed at you per se.

Hope you enjoy listening.

Best,
Dave

Offline nfredrich

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Is this really live?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2005, 04:18:26 AM »
If there was some type of "security issue" ATC chatter would be broadcasted on some sort of trunked-digital-encoded frequency that would be almost impossible to crack into. Not on VHF where anyone with a scanner can receive it.
Nick Fredrich

Offline B737-8K5

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Is this really live?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2005, 04:43:37 PM »
Just wanna thank Dave for this great service!

Offline rool4ever

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I agree
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2005, 11:45:29 PM »
Haha that is true, Robin, I forgot to consider that anyone can pick this up with a scanner live.

And of course kudos to Dave, you really said it right and its ok I don't
feel you are attacking me personally, I think you're 100% right. I listen to it as a source of entertainment (isn't it really nice that almost all the pilots wish the ATC controllers good night?). I love the part about you saying "if you know you're not doing anything wrong, then stand by your convictions and move on with your life." I think every north american today should believe in that.

Btw I got this information from www.atcmonitor.com where it states at the bottom of the page, "* Audio and Video is delayed about 5 minutes in accordance with United States Federal Regulations.  "

Anyways thanks for clearing it up hehe.. I want to thank you dave and everyone else who's helping for this awesome service!!

Rahul--

Offline TB6

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Live or delay
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2005, 12:08:02 PM »
Hi,

Just to let you know......
I experience a 40 seconds delay.
I tested with a friend, he heard my log 40 seconds later.

Rob

flyMKEmilwaukee414

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Milwaukee?
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2005, 10:10:00 PM »
Milwaukee's Airport has a 5 min lock off if you live far then the city  :roll:  thats dumb

flyMKEmilwaukee414

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Re: Milwaukee?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2005, 01:23:08 PM »
i think its a 20 sec lock off

Offline marcoleon

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Delay Regulation Origin
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2005, 01:51:33 PM »
I believe the original poster got the notion of a delay from the live flight tracking in applications such as Flight Explorer. I have a subscription to their Personal Edition and there's what seems like a 5-minute delay between what I see and what I hear on LiveATC. I do remember reading that a delay in flight data was implemented for security reasons.

Marco Leon

Offline dave

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Re: Delay Regulation Origin
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2005, 01:55:12 PM »
Quote from: marcoleon
I believe the original poster got the notion of a delay from the live flight tracking in applications such as Flight Explorer. I have a subscription to their Personal Edition and there's what seems like a 5-minute delay between what I see and what I hear on LiveATC. I do remember reading that a delay in flight data was implemented for security reasons.

Marco Leon


This is true in the case of radar data (and I believe it is 10 minutes).  I know of no such restriction on radio communications.  The only delay we have here is about 5-10 seconds (combined encoder and feed transmission/buffering latency).

-dave

Offline nfredrich

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Is this really live?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2005, 06:45:32 PM »
Milwaukee's delay has an average delay of 18.7 seconds.

I'm not sure what a "lock off" is, but there is no delay between ATC/pilots and the scanner the ydelay is created do to encoding, transmition to the servers, recoding, and then decoding and playing on your end.
Nick Fredrich

Offline PHL Approach

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Re: Delay Regulation Origin
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2005, 07:33:17 AM »
Quote from: dave
Quote from: marcoleon
I believe the original poster got the notion of a delay from the live flight tracking in applications such as Flight Explorer. I have a subscription to their Personal Edition and there's what seems like a 5-minute delay between what I see and what I hear on LiveATC. I do remember reading that a delay in flight data was implemented for security reasons.

Marco Leon


This is true in the case of radar data (and I believe it is 10 minutes).  I know of no such restriction on radio communications.  The only delay we have here is about 5-10 seconds (combined encoder and feed transmission/buffering latency).

-dave


You know, I'm starting to doubt this whole thing about there being a delay on tracking programs to 10 minutes due to security. I have used FBOweb and had it as low as 3 minutes. So Im starting to think there are other reasons, other than security as to why it's delayed.

Offline marcoleon

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The answer to this thread from Flight Explorer FAQ
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2005, 01:18:53 PM »
"Why does it appear that there is a delay on Personal Edition compared to what I see overhead or hear on an aircraft radio?
The Federal Aviation Administration has recently imposed a five minute delay on all aircraft position data for most non-airline use. This is a mandatory delay imposed by the FAA on all vendors of flight tracking services to the general public. If you are a commercial user in the aviation industry, you may qualify for non-delayed position data, which is available on our Professional Edition product. Please contact the Sales Department for more information on Flight Explorer Professional Edition, and to find out more about the FAA requirements to qualify for non-delayed position data. "

There you have it...

Marco

Offline nfredrich

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Is this really live?
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2005, 12:27:24 PM »
yeah.... thats for flight tracking software... this is not flight tracking software. this is an MP3 encoder that encodes the actual scanner audio. That scanner audio is realtime. there is no way that I know of where the FAA can put a delay on live ATC transmitions, I doubt it exists.

Therefore on average you are getting a 20-50sec delay due to encoding, sending, buffering, decoding and your specific internet connection speed.
Nick Fredrich

Offline PHL Approach

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Is this really live?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2005, 03:15:59 PM »
Quote from: nfredrich
yeah.... thats for flight tracking software... this is not flight tracking software. this is an MP3 encoder that encodes the actual scanner audio. That scanner audio is realtime. there is no way that I know of where the FAA can put a delay on live ATC transmitions, I doubt it exists.

Therefore on average you are getting a 20-50sec delay due to encoding, sending, buffering, decoding and your specific internet connection speed.


The topic got changed to flight tracking.

Offline nfredrich

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Is this really live?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2005, 04:02:23 PM »
Whoops...   :oops:
Nick Fredrich

Offline Jason

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Re: Delay Regulation Origin
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2005, 04:12:38 PM »
Quote from: PHL_Approach
Quote from: dave
Quote from: marcoleon
I believe the original poster got the notion of a delay from the live flight tracking in applications such as Flight Explorer. I have a subscription to their Personal Edition and there's what seems like a 5-minute delay between what I see and what I hear on LiveATC. I do remember reading that a delay in flight data was implemented for security reasons.

Marco Leon


This is true in the case of radar data (and I believe it is 10 minutes).  I know of no such restriction on radio communications.  The only delay we have here is about 5-10 seconds (combined encoder and feed transmission/buffering latency).

-dave


You know, I'm starting to doubt this whole thing about there being a delay on tracking programs to 10 minutes due to security. I have used FBOweb and had it as low as 3 minutes. So Im starting to think there are other reasons, other than security as to why it's delayed.


What I personally believe is software.  If they do not have the software capabilities to update data fast, a delay is probably put in place.

One possibility...

Hey Nick, its HN  8)