iPhone and /G - /L

[tyketto]

Question for the pilots and controllers here.

After reading and listening SkanknTodd's post and clip from his alternator failure (very well done, by the way!!) I had a question but haven't been able to find anything on if it would work or not.

SkanknTodd used his iPhone to get the weather at KFRG, which is great. But with the new iPhone coming out on 7/11, and it having GPS.. I know that it will use Google Maps for it's built-in functions, and TomTom is coming out with their app that can use the GPS.

But what if, say, Garmin came out with something that could use it as well, and have the navigational data that it does on its normal GPS, would having an iPhone with you in the aircraft satisfy the requirement to be /G or /L? Would that be even possible? or am I just being too geeky?

BL.

[Jason]

I don't see the FAA certifying the iPhone under TSO 129c or 146 anytime in the near future...certainly won't be panel mounted I can guarantee you that.  In short, the device does not meet FAA certification criteria to use under IFR (ie, VFR only).  In addition, it's questionable whether or not the device may be used under IFR due to the technical specs (it's a cell phone and transmits data in its normal mode), but that's another topic for a different discussion.

[KSYR-pjr]

But what if, say, Garmin came out with something that could use it as well, and have the navigational data that it does on its normal GPS, would having an iPhone with you in the aircraft satisfy the requirement to be /G or /L? Would that be even possible? or am I just being too geeky?

No, it would not be permitted.  In the US an IFR GPS that is permitted to be used as /G (GPS with terminal/en route capability) or /L (/G that is further certified for RVSM) must meet stringent FAA TSO (technical standard order) requirements, including continual RAIM (signal integrity monitoring).

Currently there are no handheld GPS units certified under either FAA TSO C129 or TSO C146a (WAAS GPS units - sole means of navigation).

In the event of an emergency, however, a pilot can use any device at his/her disposal but should recognize that GPS navigation from a non-certified unit could contain navigational errors due to faulty signals.

[PHL Approach]

The EULA pretty much covers that. I'm sure they won't change it for the new one either 

"(e) THE IPHONE SOFTWARE AND IPHONE SOFTWARE UPDATES ARE NOT INTENDED FOR USE IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEMS, LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES OR OTHER EQUIPMENT IN WHICH THE FAILURE OF THE IPHONE SOFTWARE OR IPHONE SOFTWARE UPDATES COULD LEAD TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE."

[MathFox]

The EULA does not forbid to use the iPhone for navigation in a plane, it only states that "THE IPHONE SOFTWARE [is] NOT INTENDED FOR USE IN [...] AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION". I would not rely on it as primary navigation device, it could be a useful backup.

[bcrosby]

FYI.

On VFR Flight plans in Canada, you are encouraged to put /G if you have a GPS device that you can use for navigation.

From RAC 3.16.4:

5: When using the letter “G” on an IFR flight plan, the GPS receiver must be approved in accordance with the requirements specified in TSO C-129 (Class A1, A2, B1, B2, C1 or C2), installed and approved in accordance with the appropriate sections of the Airworthiness Manual, and operated in accordance with the approved flight manual or flight manual supplement. Pilots are encouraged to use the letter “G” on VFR flight plans when using GPS to assist VFR navigation. TSO C-129 receivers are not mandatory for
VFR flights.

[KSYR-pjr]

On VFR Flight plans in Canada, you are encouraged to put /G if you have a GPS device that you can use for navigation.

VFR flight plans are only used for search and rescue here in the States.  It has been many years since I last filed a VFR flight plan, but as I recall the information on a VFR flight plan is not disseminated to ATC, only flight service.

When requesting VFR flight following, however, the aircraft equipment suffix provided by the pilot is entered and used by ATC.  It may be recommended to use /G as the suffix for VFR flight following if only a "VFR" GPS is on board here, too, but I am not 100% certain of this.

[bcrosby]

Ah yeah..

That's one thing you have to be careful of if you (Americans) are flying in Canada.

You MUST file a flight plan, regardless if its IFR or VFR. The only exception is if you are traveling less than 25nm from your departure airport. ATC does have a copy of your VFR flight plan whether you are using flight following or not.

The reason I suspect this is the case is because radar coverage in Canada, is not like in the US. In fact, even if you are in an area of radar coverage, you might not be able to get flight following due to controller workload.

If you are flying VFR and you are going to be late at your destination, you must advise ATC of your new ETA, or change in routing, etc..

Also another difference is with IFR flight plans. You can "cancel" IFR, however your SAR alerting is still in effect until you cancel that too.

A lot of foreign pilots will go VFR and cancel IFR, land, and be on their way, without closing their flight plan (SAR alerting service).

Didn't mean to get off topic here.

Oh and there is one other thing. I've never known anyone to use it, but. You can use what's called a "flight itinerary". It's essentially the same as a flight plan, but you "file" it with a "responsible person". This responsible person has the duty to let NavCanada know if you are missing.

[KSYR-pjr]

A lot of foreign pilots will go VFR and cancel IFR, land, and be on their way, without closing their flight plan (SAR alerting service).

Who does a pilot contact to close the flight plan?  ATC?  Flight Service?

I have only flown into Canada once.  It was an IFR flight from Syracuse up to Toronto City Centre.  I landed while still IFR.  Does that make a difference or was I obligated to close the flight plan, too?

[bcrosby]

You close the flight plan with:

- ATC
- FSS
- CARS (community aerodrome radio service)

This can be done via telephone, or radio.

If you are flying IFR from A to B, and land IFR, then your plan and alerting service is closed automatically.

If you are flying VFR, your plan is opened automatically at your filed departure time, however it is the pilots responsibility to file an arrival report, thus closing your plan.

At most controlled airports, the ground controller will close your VFR flight plan for you. I always double check by asking.