LiveATC Discussion Forums
Air Traffic Monitoring => Listener Forum => Topic started by: Chananya Freedman on December 14, 2010, 03:21:29 PM
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what does this mean by intercepting the "gorman 142 radio"? Is this a beacon or what?
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Do you mean "Gormin 142 radial?"
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yeah that is what I mean. it sounded like radio to me.
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Do you mean "Gormin 142 radial?"
THAT WOULD BE MY GUESS TOO
http://wikimapia.org/11520310/Aeronautical-VOR-station-GMN-Gorman
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yeah that is what I mean. it sounded like radio to me.
A radial is a course that originates from a VOR, in this case the Gorman VORTAC (GMN). The 142º radial transmits from the VORTAC southeasterly. A clearance to intercept is exactly that, join and fly the 142 degree radial southeast.
Here's an image which graphically depicts the concept of VOR radials.
(http://www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/publications/Reports/rose.gif)
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So it refers to a VOR area? Why use VOR? Poor or no visibility? No radar?
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Since I'm here I might as well ask this question.
It sounds to me that they got rid of the Gorman 4 departure and they have this new beacon called casta. Why did they change things around? How long has this been in effect? What's going on?
yeah that is what I mean. it sounded like radio to me.
A radial is a course that originates from a VOR, in this case the Gorman VORTAC (GMN). The 142º radial transmits from the VORTAC southeasterly. A clearance to intercept is exactly that, join and fly the 142 degree radial southeast.
Here's an image which graphically depicts the concept of VOR radials.
(http://www.rvs.uni-bielefeld.de/publications/Reports/rose.gif)
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So it refers to a VOR area? Why use VOR? Poor or no visibility? No radar?
The Gorman VORTAC is a navigation aid located in Gorman, California. It's primary function is for navigation along an assigned IFR route or instrument procedure and can also be used for VFR navigation.
With a quick glance at the low IFR enroute chart you can see the GMN R-142 is also known as V123, a low altitude federal airway.
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Since I'm here I might as well ask this question.
It sounds to me that they got rid of the Gorman 4 departure and they have this new beacon called casta. Why did they change things around? How long has this been in effect? What's going on?
The GORMAN 4 still exists, but the CASTA TWO is an RNAV departure which requires DME/DME/IRU or GPS and is only used on a westerly configuration.
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So if a plane was traveling from LAX to SFO they would fly over Casta? correct?
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So if a plane was traveling from LAX to SFO they would fly over Casta? correct?
It's certainly possible if assigned the CASTA 2 departure though it looks as though every aircraft that has flown LAX - SFO in the last week has been assigned the Venturo 5 departure which keeps you west of CASTA. There are of course some variables involved in any assigned route or procedure (aircraft equipment, type, weather, volume, configuration, etc).
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You might understand my question.confusion if you listen to the BUR feed. It does not say join the casta 2 departure. It says "go direct to casta" or higher after casta" or "higher after AJ".
Still a little bit confused. Freq to listen for is 128.750
So if a plane was traveling from LAX to SFO they would fly over Casta? correct?
It's certainly possible if assigned the CASTA 2 departure though it looks as though every aircraft that has flown LAX - SFO in the last week has been assigned the Venturo 5 departure which keeps you west of CASTA. There are of course some variables involved in any assigned route or procedure (aircraft equipment, type, weather, volume, configuration, etc).
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Burbank departures are routed differently than LAX departures. One route I saw out of BUR is:
KBUR
VNY8 - Depature procedure calls for turn to west, expecting radar vectors
GMN - Gorman VOR
GALXY - GALXY intersection
COREZ - COREZ intersection
MAKRS - MAKRS - intersection
BSR - Big Sur VOR
BSR2 - Standard Terminal Arrival Big Sur Two
KSFO
So the two things you might hear are "intercept the Gorman 142 radial" or "cleared direct CASTA." While there is a CASTA2 departure procedure from LAX, in this case, they are clearing the pilot to the point in space that is the CASTA intersection. This intersection is where the LAX Departure Procedure gets its name as it flies through this point. This point just happens to be 18 nm southeast of the Gorman VOR along the (you guessed it) 142 radial.
So "intercept the Gorman 142 radial" would be keep flying straight ahead until you hit that radial, then turn northwest (322 degrees) and fly along it, while "cleared direct CASTA" would instruct the pilot to turn and fly straight to that point in space, then make the turn northwest along the 142 radial.
Check out this link and you'll get a pretty good idea of the route:
http://skyvector.com/?ll=34.532783554161526,-118.72658302295261&chart=24&zoom=3&plan=A.K2.KBUR:F.K2.CASTA:V.K2.GMN:F.K2.GALXY:F.K2.COREZ:F.K2.MAKRS:V.K2.BSR:A.K2.KSFO
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You might understand my question.confusion if you listen to the BUR feed. It does not say join the casta 2 departure. It says "go direct to casta" or higher after casta" or "higher after AJ".
Still a little bit confused. Freq to listen for is 128.750
The place you'd hear instructions for the departure procedure (DP) would be on clearance delivery. e.g. "cleared to SFO via the CASTA2 departure _________ transition, victor-123 then as filed...
I don't know anything about the instances you are referring to specifically but it sounds like the aircraft were either taken off the DP or weren't able to accept it so the controller has to vector/clear them to a point where they can pick up their flight plan route.
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Great job guys! Awesome explanations. Hey I didn't think this post would go so crazy so fast.