LiveATC Discussion Forums
Air Traffic Monitoring => Listener Forum => Topic started by: Umop3pisdn on April 10, 2006, 06:28:44 PM
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For a while now, I have wanted to become an air traffic controller, Ever since about seventh grade. I Am currently a junior at a high school in Connecticut. What are some of the things I should do to become an ATC. Today I got back my ASVAB results, and my second interest code, it was conventional, low and behold ATC was there.
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I would suggest to start looking at schools the are in the FAA's Collegiate Training Initiative. Research and if possible, visit the schools you are interested in.
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www.atccti.com , all the resources you'll need.
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thanks a bundle! With the research I have done, it said that I need 4 year of collage or, three year work experanice before entering a school. Do those school apply, or is this a diffrent program of some sort
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thanks a bundle! With the research I have done, it said that I need 4 year of collage or, three year work experanice before entering a school. Do those school apply, or is this a diffrent program of some sort
That's not true. Most CTI programs are 4 years but there are a couple of 2-year programs as well. And you don't need any work experience to enter any of them.
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Thanks again, also, How hard is it to get into one of these schools, and become an ATC
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ouch, its hard from what i hear. it takes effort, no mistakes in controlling, and schedules are hard too.
it depends on what airport you want to go to! different classes, different pay scales... different experiences required :D
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Make sure you know what your getting yourself into though. NATCA and the FAA are having BIG contract talks right now and its not looking too good for the controllers.
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Make sure you know what your getting yourself into though. NATCA and the FAA are having BIG contract talks right now and its not looking too good for the controllers.
In what way is it not looking good? Pay, benefits, an uncertain future (outsourcing)?
I think it is admirable that this person knows what he wants to do at his age. Me? I screwed around during and after high school, then entered college a few years later in a degree in which I really was not interested. By the time I realized that I was interested in ATC as a career, I was bumping up against their maximum age (30) of entry into the program. Needless to say, I didn't make the program.
My recommendation to the originator of this thread is to take all the necessary steps to enter the program now. Good luck to you!
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This is a post from a ZJX Dev. on the atccti.com forum, with the new pay scale is included.
AG (Academy Grad) $31,100
A side $36,335
D side $41,570
R side $57,275
CPC $66,000 to $94,900 (after 30 years on job) CURRENTLY CPC PAY IS $110,00-140,000
"Under the FAAs last best offer, anyone who is not a CPC will fall under this scale. However our pay currently will not be cut. I am making 61,000 as an A side right now (compare that with the $36,335). But my pay will not be lowered. However I will not get a raise again until I am CPC. It will be a 5 grand raise!!!! whoopie"
I don't know if this was changed in the new contract. But the FAA was proposing, no incentive pay to an instructor. Which as some know, if your Developmental has a deal. Your charged with it..... In the new contract, they want to make pay scales by each Area in the ARTCCs. So they count up the traffic, and give your area a rating. That would be the demise of facility ratings, so someone in a less intense Area will get screwed over. While some guy busting his ass off with get the "promising" B scale. If your ARTCC Area is made say a Level 9. This would be the pay scale.
AG (Academy Grad) $31,100
A side $34,550
D side $38,000
R side $48,350
CPC $54,100 to 76,500 (after 30 years on job) CURRENTLY CPC PAY IS $110,00-140,000
For people that are interested in the entire contract proposal that goes in front of Congress in two months. It's here: http://employees.faa.gov/managers/media/FAA_Submission_to_Congress_4-5-06.pdf
If you haven't done so already, call your Congressmen to let them know how bad you don't want this contract to go through. www.fairfaa.com is where you wanna go to know who to call.
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KSYR,
PHL_Approach's post basically backs up what I was saying. The new pay scale proposed by the FAA is a joke. I could be a fry cook at Mc'Donalds, put up with less bullshit then controllers do, and make more money than an Academy Grad.
Im not trying to discourage him or anthing; I just think If someone wants to get into this career they should know what kinda future they are looking at.
Im younger than he is, so it has nothing to do with age. Ive seriousily looked into ATC as a career, but with all the crap going on right now Im not so sure. Both of us have a while though. A lot can happen in a few years.
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If you haven't done so already, call your Congressmen to let them know how bad you don't want this contract to go through. www.fairfaa.com is where you wanna go to know who to call.
Ditto. For anyone that hasn't, please, please call your Congressmen. There about the last chance left for controllers to have any kind of decent standard of living.
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Zotan, how old are you...And as for the person saying dont discourage him, i have gotton alot of discouragement already. When I was younger, i wanted to be a pilot, so something to do with avation would be cool. I really would like to be a controller. I'd like to thank everyone for answering my questions. Another thing, with the live feeds, I can't get it to play. It loads fine and on all my players it says its playing. i have tried winamp, real player, and windows media player..suggestions?
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My recommendation to the originator of this thread is to take all the necessary steps to enter the program now. Good luck to you!
Sorry for the double post, but what would those steps be?
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As far as discouragement or not--It appears to me that, from here forward, if somebody wants a career in air traffic control, it'll be because they love the job. That's an acceptable reason--actually a damn good one. But, it's not going to be a job for somebody who hates it and is only in it for the money.
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Umop,
Im 16.
Ive looked into becoming a pilot also, but have the same feeling for that career as I now do about ATC. It seems as If all of aviation is on a downhill slope right now. It is an industry I want to be involved with, but If the current trend continues I will do something else.
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Sorry for the double post, but what would those steps be?
I going to defer to JD's experience, as he is a real live controller and I was a 1988 wash-out of sorts. :)
While I am confident that there are steps that you would need to complete, I couldn't speak to the details as they are in 2006.
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As far as discouragement or not--It appears to me that, from here forward, if somebody wants a career in air traffic control, it'll be because they love the job. That's an acceptable reason--actually a damn good one. But, it's not going to be a job for somebody who hates it and is only in it for the money.
I use to think the same thing. That it's not about the money and all. But we all know jobs are about the money. It was a double whammy for me. It was good money and it was something I wanted to do. Before I wanted to be an ATCS, I wanted to get my ATP and move up to a major. After meeting an ATP (who Im now really good friends with). He told me to stay away from it and this was from a man who was furloughed from US Airways Mainline and was recalled to fly E170's for Mid Atlantic. Now with all the stuff going on with Mid Atlantic, he decided to leave and is flying for a much smaller company now. The only good job security for ATPs out there is with Fractionals/ Corporate.
If this FAA contract goes through, I'm done. I know alot of guys are just dropping out of CTI altogether or atleast changing majors/minors if this contract goes through. For the most part, alot of these facilites are in very high cost of living areas. It's hard to support yourself as a Dev with the current pay. If your looking to start a family fresh outta OKC, forget it. I can't imagine what it will be like with the new pay. My buddy at ZNY makes 3800 a month, he's been out of OKC since August. He's checked out on his A sides and now in D school. He told me he just barely squeaks out the bills at his residence in LI.
Edit: Spelling mistakes
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I'm no journeyman but allow me to give my 2 cents. I'll agree that the current climate in the FAA is not great. Employee morale is at an all-time low and the contract negotiations weigh highly on everyone's mind. But...
If you love aviation and Air traffic control, do whatever it takes and become an air traffic controller. I would do this job for $10 an hour if that's what it paid. I love it that much. I cannot tell you how many professional controllers I hear every day say, "this is the greatest job in the world."
Yes, the industry as a whole is at a low-point right now but like anything else it will bounce back (especially with the certification of so many new microjets - but that's another thread). Tell me what industry has a rock-solid future which never waivers and I'll tell you why it is not as great as this one.
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If this FAA contract goes through, I'm done.
The whole thing kinda cuts both ways as far as a young person who's considering a career.
It should be interesting to see how many retirements happen. It's been well publicized that there's a lot of controllers getting close to retirement age anyway. Those who have enough time in, but would have worked for a few years more will be particularly tempted to hang up their headsets. The staffing issue could turn critical a lot sooner than has been talked about--a matter of months rather than years.
If there's a mass exodus of the older controllers there will be openings sooner for new people. Those who may have had to wait could get hired a lot earlier. Yes, the money won't be as good, but, as I said, for someone who just loves the job for its own sake, the time may be right.
On the other hand, a lot of otherwise qualified and motivated people, who'd have made good controllers, will seek better economic opportunities in other fields.
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JD, you posted that while I was typing my post. That's excatly the attitude I'm talking about. (And maybe what the FAA is counting on. Trouble is, and what I think Ed is talking about, it could seem a little less great when baby needs a new pair of shoes.)
By the way, my paycheck comes from the United States government....I'm pretty sure that's never going out of business.
Maybe not, but I wouldn't bet against the whole darn government someday being contracted out to the lowest bidder... :roll:
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I also considered ATC as a career. The problem for me is that I am 29 and live in Mechanicsburg, PA which isn't near any of the ATC schools. I am married and not willing to relocate to attend school. I wish I had explored this career option much earlier because I sincerely believe that I would enjoy it. If the schools were closer I would consider jumping in at the last minute, but without that option I can't even consider it.
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How smart do you have to be to pass the AT-SAT? Im in level two classes, except for math. My grades are all b's except for math heh, i dont do well with imaginary numbers and things that you'll never use in life.
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How smart do you have to be to pass the AT-SAT?
That depends on your definition of "pass." If you take it in a competitive setting like a job-fair or something, my understanding is they won't even look at you unless you score 95% or better. If you take it as part of a CTI program, your placement will be depend on how well you do relative to the others in your service area.
I took it recently for resarch purposes and I thought it was pretty easy. People who are good at typing or playing video games should have a distinct advantage.
I'm sure you've seen this but here is an overview of it.
http://www.atccti.com/document/atsat.doc
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I am alright at typing, and I hate video games.
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I am alright at typing, and I hate video games.
Hmmm... maybe you should consider a career as a forest ranger instead. :)
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:x :shock: :lol: OUCH!...haha...Well, let me elabarate... I hate the shooting games...I always die...I like the racing games..and i used to love playing flight simulator 98 8) <--Yeah you know I'm cool
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Hey now......stop the press!!! I just heard FAA Administrator Marion Blakey say on CSPAN that the only requirement to work as a controller is a high school diploma and the ability to pass the test.
Nevermind the fact that the FAA's primary method for hiring controllers is the collegiate training initiative which specifically requires a college degree. And nevermind the littany of psychological, medical, credit, employment, and criminal background checks that are also required. :?
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Hey now......stop the press!!! I just heard FAA Administrator Marion Blakey say on CSPAN that the only requirement to work as a controller is a high school diploma and the ability to pass the test.
I'm watching too. When I heard her say that, I about spit my Dr Pepper all over the place.
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Marion Blakey is a joke. She just flat out lies to get what she wants. What a disgrace...
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Hey now......stop the press!!! I just heard FAA Administrator Marion Blakey say on CSPAN that the only requirement to work as a controller is a high school diploma and the ability to pass the test.
Nevermind the fact that the FAA's primary method for hiring controllers is the collegiate training initiative which specifically requires a college degree. And nevermind the littany of psychological, medical, credit, employment, and criminal background checks that are also required. :?
That was the main thing I had a beef with when I watched it yesterday at 3. I just shook my head and started saying "NO.... NO... WTF are you talking about, what was the last time they did off the street hiring other then the Fairs last summer". For the most part I liked the callers questions. Other than that jackass from Alabama. He said the controller that called from California needs to be happy with his pay. He wasn't complaining, he wanted her to stop changing the top pay numbers. It's been like 6 different figures now. We need to get the Alabama guy some facility tours!
There was one controller that I think just killed it with his few questions. I think it was the controller from Louisiana. The other guy (from Georgia whose Dad worked in a Center) that caught something I posted about two days ago involving giving the ARTCC Areas a rating. He read it word verbatim off the contract proposal. I would like to praise him for bringing that up on live air, since pay will be even less because of the drop in facility rating. The last thing I wanted to say was about someone that brought up Truck Drivers can make in the range of 50k. Yea and they don't have to pay for an Associates/ BA Degree. All they have to dish out for is CDL training, and maybe the truck company pays for that. Anyway, what I have been trying to say over the past few days in the forum. Is there are alot of jobs out there that can make much more than or equal to this new pay scale, without 1. Politics 2. Paying student loans and 3. Waiting up to a year to three years to be in Process just to go to OKC!
*Rant Over*
BTW, Matt shes a politician. She gets paid to lie, after all thats what that $162,100 paycheck is for. If only politicans would get up on a show and say "Unfortunately, I have been lying about an issue lately and I need to tell you the truth" haha, if that happened. The Federal Government would have had their "Going out of Business" sale long ago.
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Im still confused..Do i need to go to a regular school for four years, or can i go to a CTI schoolafter I graduate?
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Im still confused..Do i need to go to a regular school for four years, or can i go to a CTI schoolafter I graduate?
I my opinion you're best bet is still the CTI program or the military. Your chances of getting hired "off the street" are very slim.
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Umop3pisdn wrote:
Im still confused..Do i need to go to a regular school for four years, or can i go to a CTI schoolafter I graduate?
The way I read the question is, you're not asking if you can get hired "off the street", with a high school diploma, but "do you need to go to a regular college, before attending a CTI school?"
The answer to that is, that the CTI schools are colleges, and you'll graduate there with a college degree specifically tailored to becoming an ATC.
Somebody can correct me if I'm confused too... :)
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Im still confused..Do i need to go to a regular school for four years, or can i go to a CTI schoolafter I graduate?
I my opinion you're best bet is still the CTI program or the military. Your chances of getting hired "off the street" are very slim.
That may change though in the next few years. With the upcoming "staffing crisis", off the street may become the norm.
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The way I read the question is, you're not asking if you can get hired "off the street", with a high school diploma, but "do you need to go to a regular college, before attending a CTI school?"
The answer to that is, that the CTI schools are colleges, and you'll graduate there with a college degree specifically tailored to becoming an ATC.
Thats what I ment, and thanks! Are the CTI school expensive, do they offer financial aid and such? My mom is single, and is self employed, and my dad...well..hes a deadbeat jerk..but thats a whole diffrent topic
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Anyone know of any job fairs coming up in the central pennsylvania area with ATC representatives?
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- Go for the United States Air Force brother, it's the best deal in town. All you need is a diploma, desire. I'll be retiring in less then 17 years if all goes as planed...
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See im a Sophomore at my High School. And earlier this year i did a Job shadow at the Detroit Metro Airport. And I did my Shadow the the Flight Director and i asked that question "Is it better to go to a ATC school and get my degree or is it better to go into the Airfore" And he said " It is better to go to school, Most people coming out of the Airfore dont get the jobs because they work with Completly different aircraft" " So navigating the commerical jets will be a challenge to get used to other then the Airforce fighters"... Just thought id let yall know.. Will somone please let me know if he was wrong, Because after hearing that kinda discouraged me but hey theres other things in Aviation..
Thanks... Kc
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I would say Air force if you like rotations to the desert. I tried that avenue many years ago. Ended up going to Beaver county College in PA. after my enlistment. After the 2 year program at BVI I had to wait a year before being hired but, eventually got in the door. Been an ATC for 8 years now, loving it, working level 12 traffic and would recomend BVI to anyone.
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wow its good to hear all these new ATC ers . keep up your dreams and they will come true
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does anyone know about SERCO. I hear they run about 54ish control Towers in the United States. I talked to a lady at John Wayne Air Traffic Control Tower today and she said that the FAA will be hiring a lot of these controllers that work for SERCO.
Anybody know???
Thanx, Michael
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does anyone know about SERCO. I hear they run about 54ish control Towers in the United States. I talked to a lady at John Wayne Air Traffic Control Tower today and she said that the FAA will be hiring a lot of these controllers that work for SERCO...
Not sure what you're asking exactly. Are you looking to get a job with Serco? My understanding is that they require a CTO and a minimum of 1 year of experience. As for their people getting hired by the FAA, they also go through the conventional avenues (VRA, CTI, ATSAT).