airtraffic

Author Topic: Geneva frequencies missing  (Read 3911 times)

Offline aerobisector309

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Geneva frequencies missing
« on: January 03, 2020, 04:42:12 AM »
Hello, it's been a long time since I used LiveATC. When I came back to the website and search for LSGG, only Tower appears. Does anyone know what happened to other frequencies like Arrival and Radar?



Offline quelbazar

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2020, 09:19:25 AM »
LSGG tower is gone too some days ago. No more LSGG  coverage  :-(.
I wrote to LiveATC, using the ad hoc form, a few months ago to offer them coverage of some LSGG frequencies. I never got a response.
So I wrote to them again a few weeks ago: No reply, no acknowledgement.
I admit I'm a bit disappointed: I offer to contribute to liveATC, and nobody takes the time to answer me...

Offline dave

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2020, 08:22:19 AM »
There are no messages from you in our support system. Please PM me offline with a ticket number if you have one. But checking your email address there is no contact.

Offline tamia

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2020, 02:14:27 PM »
If you can please recover the feed, I'll be happy!

Offline Haribda

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2021, 10:15:15 AM »
Any chance to bring back the LSGG feed?

Offline thowe

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2021, 07:41:14 AM »
I am not in the LSGG region but feeder at another airport in Switzerland. If I can support someone in setting up a LiveATC feed, I will be happy to do so. I have quite a lot of experience by now.

Requirements:
- Acceptable reception from ATC and aircraft (ideally also on the ground).
- Raspberry Pi 3 or 4
- Internet connection (cable or wifi)
- SDR dongle(s) (e.g. with a SDRPlay RSP1A you can cover several frequencies at the same time in a range of 7 MHz)

Tom

Offline dave

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2021, 07:42:21 AM »
Thanks, Tom! Hopefully a volunteer near Geneva will show up soon.

Offline thowe

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2021, 05:23:40 AM »
I am currently in contact with someone from the Geneva region who already has an affinity for the topic via ADS-B streaming. Maybe he can get on board with the idea of streaming LiveATC for LSGG. We have a meeting tomorrow.

However, we now have to clarify together his technical possibilities, the suitability of his location, etc. Maybe we start deliberately very small (scanning over several frequencies with an RTL stick) and see from there.

Are there any empirical values, which frequencies were particularly interesting for the airport and which were rather not?

Offline dave

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2021, 08:30:03 AM »
I am currently in contact with someone from the Geneva region who already has an affinity for the topic via ADS-B streaming. Maybe he can get on board with the idea of streaming LiveATC for LSGG. We have a meeting tomorrow.

However, we now have to clarify together his technical possibilities, the suitability of his location, etc. Maybe we start deliberately very small (scanning over several frequencies with an RTL stick) and see from there.

Are there any empirical values, which frequencies were particularly interesting for the airport and which were rather not?

Great! The key issue will be whether he can mount a small VHF antenna outside and also how far he is from the airport and the terrain between his location and the airport. For almost complete frequency coverage it would take 3 SDRs. For a scanning situation one SDR could be used to scan the primary frequencies.

Geneva Clearance: 121.680
Geneva Ground: 121.680 (secondary 119.700)
Geneva Tower: 118.700, 119.905 (secondary 119.700)
Geneva Approach: 130.555
Geneva Final Approach: 120.305
Geneva Transit Approach: 136.450
Geneva Arrival: 136.255
Geneva Departure: 119.530, 131.330

Hope this helps.

Dave



Offline thowe

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2021, 08:37:04 AM »
Thanks Dave. That's a lot of frequencies.... Especially approach frequencies they seem to love.... ;-)

I'll check the points you raised tomorrow in exchange with the colleague.

Offline thowe

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2021, 03:28:38 AM »
The interested person and I have had an initial exchange today. We are now checking the possibilities from his location and will contact you directly as soon as we have streams that are usable.

Offline thowe

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2021, 03:32:43 PM »
Meanwhile, two feeders are preparing to bring LSGG back online. I try to coordinate and support both.

Regarding the frequencies: I think the data you mentioned are the new channels in the 8kHz grid. I.e. these data can be entered exactly like that in the airplane and converted internally by the radio. But if you have to enter the effective frequency like RTLSDR, then the frequencies are sometimes different.

For this reason I would say that the effective frequencies are the following (according to AIP):

Code: [Select]
      freqs = ( 136.450, 136.250, 119.525, 130.550, 120.300, 131.325, 118.700, 119.900, 119.700, 121.675, 121.850, 121.750);
      labels = ( "Transit", "Arrival", "Departure", "Approach", "Final", "Departure Aux", "Tower", "Tower 2", "Tower/Ground Aux", "Ground", "Apron", "Apron Aux");
The feeders will contact you as soon as the setups are ready.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2021, 04:00:20 AM by thowe »

Offline Hiroari_Till_When?

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2021, 01:10:34 PM »
There have to be a lot of approach frequencies in Geneva, the region is packed full of airports, there are several major ones within 150 miles of Geneva, air traffic has to be really, really well monitored. Plus, you've got a lot of different air forces flying in the region, too!

Offline quelbazar

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2021, 09:04:19 AM »
There are no messages from you in our support system. Please PM me offline with a ticket number if you have one. But checking your email address there is no contact.

18 months after, I'm back  :wink:

I've done a successful rtl-airband config. I can now provide :

LSGG Geneva Arrival: 136.255
OR
LSGG Geneva Departure 119.525 (or 119.530 ?)

I don't know how to provide 2 freqs with only one dongle.

I will fill the ad hoc contact form and DM to Dave.

Offline thowe

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2021, 04:27:53 AM »
Thanks for the info.

You can only stream two frequencies separately with one dongle if they are within a 2.5MHz window. Otherwise you have to configure a frequency scanning mode where you only hear one frequency out of many. Details can be found in the RTLSDR Airband Wiki.

Together with two other enthusiasts we are preparing a huge offer for LSGG. From Radar Upper Level to Tower and Ground everything should be available in very good quality at the end. A part of it might go online soon.

If you want to focus on something now, I would target the tower frequency. Especially if you are close to the airport and receive the aircraft on the ground well.

Offline quelbazar

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2021, 03:32:24 AM »
Hi Thowe,
If you want to focus on something now, I would target the tower frequency. Especially if you are close to the airport and receive the aircraft on the ground well.

Unfortunately I'm not close enough to the airport to cover tower frequency.

Quote
Together with two other enthusiasts we are preparing a huge offer for LSGG. From Radar Upper Level to Tower and Ground everything should be available in very good quality at the end. A part of it might go online soon.
OK : My coverage of 136.255 is not a "top quality" reception, especially when the weather is bad. When available, your coverage will be more complete, and certainly with best quality. LiveATC suhould publish the best quality, I agree  :-D.

My temporary test feed : http://lespupu.synology.me:8000/mystream (not sure I can post URLs on this forum  :wink:)



Offline thowe

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2021, 12:15:10 PM »
Hi quelbazar

Thanks for your information and the URL to the temporary stream!  :-)

I am currently listening to your stream and can follow LSGG Arrival over it well. The signals are quite clean - but all (controllers and aircraft) rather on the weak side with a relatively large amount of white noise. Do you have the antenna inside or are you very far away from the action? You might be able to increase the signal-to-noise ratio just by increasing the gain in the configuration.

I will send you a private message here in the forum with our internal test streams. Please do not spread this. We are now approaching Dave to have these streams on LiveATC very soon.

Offline quelbazar

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2021, 12:47:36 PM »
Hi quelbazar

Thanks for your information and the URL to the temporary stream!  :-)

I am currently listening to your stream and can follow LSGG Arrival over it well. The signals are quite clean - but all (controllers and aircraft) rather on the weak side with a relatively large amount of white noise. Do you have the antenna inside or are you very far away from the action? You might be able to increase the signal-to-noise ratio just by increasing the gain in the configuration.

I will send you a private message here in the forum with our internal test streams. Please do not spread this. We are now approaching Dave to have these streams on LiveATC very soon.

Hi Thowe,

I fully agree : My stream is not clean enough. I've a (very) low cost USB dongle, a basic indoor antenna, and I'm 60km away (east) from airport. I tested many gain configs with no changes. Putting antenna outside is worst  :? .I ordered another usb dongle and a better antenna.
But your LSGG arrival stream is obvously better than mine. Dave will have to use your source.  :-)

Thank you for your work and for your advices !

Offline thowe

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2021, 02:35:28 PM »
Well. I don't think the stream is that bad! And compared to what was available the last few months for LSGG (namely zero), it is so to say infinitely better... ;-)

In my experience, an outdoor antenna brings a lot. And of course one of the well-known RTL dongles (RTL SDR Blog V3 or NESDR SMArt).

Maybe there is a possibility to receive an additional channel from your position later, which does not fit into one of the received frequency windows with the other two setups. This would then complement each other well.

Offline Jutu87

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2021, 06:37:55 AM »
Wow, yearly christmas present. First LSGG frequencies online!

Maybe there is still some installation inprogess because archive audio replays are only 12-15min long instead of 30min (audacity in use)

Hopefully there is TWR frequency coming online too in some period.

Thanks!

Offline thowe

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2021, 07:54:17 AM »
Where did you see the LSGG channels? I know the audio-in addresses. But without this "insider knowledge" I haven't found any tracks yet...?

We are currently still in the process of ramping up several streams. They should be found "officially" in the next hours. We have given the "OK".

For now we can only offer channels like Arrival, Departure, Radar etc. because we receive from relatively far away. I am in contact with another enthusiast so hopefully we will be able to offer the local frequencies like Tower, Ground etc soon.

But: After a long time without coverage, Geneva frequencies are now coming to LibeATC.net. About time, isn't it?

Feedback on the channels is welcome.

Offline thowe

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2021, 04:23:09 AM »
It is done! After a long absence, the first frequencies from Geneva (GVA / LSGG) are back on LiveATC.net:
https://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=LSGG

These are mainly frequencies which can be received well from a distance: Arrival, Departure, Radar Initial Low Level and all Radar Upper Levels. The ATIS is also available.

Local frequencies like Tower, Ground, Apron etc. cannot be covered from a distance and will hopefully follow later - we are preparing with an enthusiast from the Geneva region.

As a good start I would recommend the LSGG Arrival. It's exciting to hear how the airliners are approached and separated to the ILS Localizer. On FlightAware or another online radar service, you can track the position of the airliners and see how they are lined up on the ILS.

Have fun with the LSGG frequencies, which have their own special charm. For example, part of the communication is in French, part in English.

Offline FrenchGap

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2021, 03:35:24 AM »
Oh wow, Christmas really has come early! Thank you to all who contributed :D

I would like to note that there is one upper sector missing, namely L67. While it is most of the time combined with L5, it can be separated in case of high traffic especially in the summer.

The L67 sector (L6 + combined with a "virtual" L7 sector) is from FL370 to FL660 and has the frequency 132.615.

Have a great day all

Offline thowe

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2021, 04:36:01 AM »
Thank you for the great feedback. It also makes us happy when we know that other enthusiasts also enjoy and appreciate the frequencies of LSGG

My personal favorite while walking is the scanner over Arrival and Departure. :-)

Thanks for pointing out the current missing radar level 6, we are aware of its existence. Due to hardware and SDR restrictions we had deliberately left it out for the time being.

In the course of opening up further frequencies, we may soon be able to include this L6 in the package.

Have fun and thanks for the info.

Offline aerobisector309

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Re: Geneva frequencies missing
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2021, 02:06:42 PM »
Thanks so much for your contributions, guys!