Author Topic: Flight planned/Centre stored routings  (Read 8284 times)

Offline Jonathan_tcu

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Flight planned/Centre stored routings
« on: November 13, 2005, 03:14:21 PM »
Just a question.  When I hear the Air Canada Jazz flights' clearances from here in Timmins, out of Sudbury and North Bay every morning between 6 and 6:30 ( 11 and 11:30 z) I hear for example: "ATC clears Jazz 7-8-2-0 to the Toronto Pearson Airport, via Timmins, direct Mans (Mansfield VOR), flight planned route...." and other mornings, after the routing direct Mans (CYMS), it's V 164.  The same for jazz flights from Sudbury via same routing, or North Bay, via V 37 and other mornings, flight planned route.  Plus, there is a Bearskin flight that heads up to Kap, normally V 5 and sometimes flight planned route.  If there is only one radial/track FROM the departing airport VOR, what differs between direct routing or flight planned/centre stored routing?   :roll:



Offline binky

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Flight planned/Centre stored routings
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2005, 02:29:17 PM »
The strips generated for ATC will indicate the route the aircraft will fly.  If a carrier is to fly the originally filed route then they will be cleared via "flight planned route".  This is indicated on the flight strips with "AR" meaning ad-hoc route.  If the company (Jazz) flies the same flights all the time as per their schedule they can have the routes stored in the flight planning system and the strips will be generated automatically for each flight without the company having to file each time.  In these cases the strips will indicate "CR" and the controller will issue via "centre stored route".  This does not prevent the controller from amending the route to something slightly more efficient to the flight such as "direct mans V164" or "direct simcoe V37".

Offline Tomato

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Flight planned/Centre stored routings
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2005, 03:39:31 PM »
I can make some guesses based on common sense, but what happens to delayed/cancelled flights?  Is the time just adjusted?  What happens to a cancelled flight?

I don't see any problems as it's easy enough to cancel a flight plan... the only problem would be if you were ready to taxi without a flight plan.  Hm, commercial airlines flying VFR?  heh...  :D

Offline Jonathan_tcu

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Flight planned/Centre stored routings
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2005, 06:46:23 PM »
Here's another of my bizzare assumptions.  Let's assume the pilot discusses preferred altitudes enroute with FSS, let's say upper level winds suggest a smoother ride at FL250, instead of say 18 000 feet.  If the company filed for say 19 000 feet, and the pilot prefers the higher altitude, he'll probably ask the FSS to re-file on behalf of the company, forward THAT to ATC CTR who will amend the flight plan, read the newer version upon ATC clearance.  Is that correct?

Offline binky

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Flight planned/Centre stored routings
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2005, 03:35:07 PM »
Delayed flights will 'time out' and drop out of the live flight plan system if revised departure times are not forwarded to the flight planning department for update in the system.  Strips may still be present, but the flight will no longer be in the system if they were to depart.  For a revision, FSS can take an altitude request from a pilot, pass it to the IFR controller who in turn would call up the flight planning department to make the revision.  New strips would then be printed to the affected sectors and units in a few minutes.  It would probably be less of a hassle for the pilot to simply get airborne and request the altitude change in the air then have two or three people call each other to make a relatively simple change like that.

Offline Jonathan_tcu

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Flight planned/Centre stored routings
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2005, 08:34:15 PM »
That's still   a little strange.  I say that because sometimes when the Jazz flights leave Timmins, they fly direct Mans *YMS* then V164 to Toronto and the 'flight planned routing' clearance substitutes V164 with flight planned route, which is THE common route.  So, what would be the technical difference here? Just the altitude?  :?:

Offline Runhog

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Flight planned/Centre stored routings
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2005, 11:23:41 PM »
Quote from: Jonathan_tcu
That's still   a little strange.  I say that because sometimes when the Jazz flights leave Timmins, they fly direct Mans *YMS* then V164 to Toronto and the 'flight planned routing' clearance substitutes V164 with flight planned route, which is THE common route.  So, what would be the technical difference here? Just the altitude?  :?:


If I'm reading this right, the answer would be ....MANOPS stipulates you have to include the first point you are flying to before using "flight planned route" when issuing a clearance. Flight planned route just means there are no changes to what you filed. If they didn't use Flight Planned Routing, then chances are they are issuing a clearance that differs from the flight plan that was filed.

Offline binky

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Flight planned/Centre stored routings
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2005, 01:06:21 PM »
With such a short simple route like CYTS V5 YSB V164 YYZ you might be trying to read too much into how the controller is giving the small shortcut direct to YMS. Saying 'direct YMS V164' is the same as 'direct YMS, flight planned route'.  FPR after YMS is just V164 so there are two ways to say the same thing.  To use the 'direct to..  flight planned route' you have to have a common point which was mentioned in the previous post to link the amendment to the filed route.  Another example.. V320 ECK J94 FNT PMM5.  A controller might say 'direct DEWIT flight planned route", "direct DEWIT on course" or 'direct DEWIT J94 on course/as filed'. They are all the same thing: go to DEWIT then continue from there as filed