Author Topic: East Canada zulu coverage?  (Read 6851 times)

Offline 777lrf

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East Canada zulu coverage?
« on: March 06, 2015, 08:19:00 PM »
I enjoy the coverage in eastern Canada. CYYZ and CYUL have Timins and Noranda sectors.

But is there anything for just a little more east? Flights coming from Europe to the Atlantic coast of America, is there coverage there? Route in the winter are coming from Greenland then Montreal center and then over north Ne York or Maine.

Also what are the stations that cover the flights crossing the border from Canada around Maine and New York?

KHUL for Maine and ZBW Boston Center (CAM39) for NY?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 08:24:33 PM by 777lrf »



Offline 777lrf

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Re: East Canada zulu coverage?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2015, 10:34:54 PM »
CZUL Montreal Center sounds like only an approach and departure but the frequencies listed are for the actual center. But I am not hearing any airplanes unless they are on approach to the Montreal area.

Listening to some frequencies.. ZBW Boston Center (MPV52/PLB53) picks up airplanes crossing from Montreal Center into northern NH/Vermont
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 10:42:17 PM by 777lrf »

Offline JetScan1

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Re: East Canada zulu coverage?
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2015, 10:48:19 PM »
Quote
But is there anything for just a little more east?

No unfortunately, not covering any Canadian High altitude airspace. There used be one covering some Moncton sectors but it's been gone for awhile now. The Montreal sectors that are covered are low altitude only (FL280 and below).

Quote
Also what are the stations that cover the flights crossing the border from Canada around Maine and New York?

All the Boston Center sectors that border Canadian Airspace are covered by LiveATC.

ZBW09, 123.875, borders Montreal and Toronto Centers
- routing via NAR waypoint SYR

ZBW52/ZBW53, 135.700/118.825, borders Montreal Center
- routing via NAR waypoint ALB
- 118.825 used when required (traffic volume)

ZBW01, 128.050, borders Montreal and Moncton Centers
- routing via NAR waypoints QUBIS, TAFFY, MIILS, TOPPS

ZBW02, 134.950, borders Moncton Center
- routing via NAR waypoints EBONY, ALLEX

ZBW17, 133.450, borders Moncton Center
- routing via NAR waypoints TUSKY, BRADD, KANNI, WHALE, VITOL

NAR = North Atlantic Route System

All traffic from Europe to the east coast through Canadian airspace will flightplan via one of the above NAR waypoints. You can use Flightaware to see what NAR waypoint the flight is planned over (if it's listed, the route data is lacking on a lot of these flights).

Offline 777lrf

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Re: East Canada zulu coverage?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2015, 11:20:11 PM »
Quote
But is there anything for just a little more east?

No unfortunately, not covering any Canadian High altitude airspace. There used be one covering some Moncton sectors but it's been gone for awhile now. The Montreal sectors that are covered are low altitude only (FL280 and below).

Quote
Also what are the stations that cover the flights crossing the border from Canada around Maine and New York?

All the Boston Center sectors that border Canadian Airspace are covered by LiveATC.

ZBW09, 123.875, borders Montreal and Toronto Centers
- routing via NAR waypoint SYR

ZBW52/ZBW53, 135.700/118.825, borders Montreal Center
- routing via NAR waypoint ALB
- 118.825 used when required (traffic volume)

ZBW01, 128.050, borders Montreal and Moncton Centers
- routing via NAR waypoints QUBIS, TAFFY, MIILS, TOPPS

ZBW02, 134.950, borders Moncton Center
- routing via NAR waypoints EBONY, ALLEX

ZBW17, 133.450, borders Moncton Center
- routing via NAR waypoints TUSKY, BRADD, KANNI, WHALE, VITOL

NAR = North Atlantic Route System

All traffic from Europe to the east coast through Canadian airspace will flightplan via one of the above NAR waypoints. You can use Flightaware to see what NAR waypoint the flight is planned over (if it's listed, the route data is lacking on a lot of these flights).

great info thank you for this. Too bad about the stations going dark

Offline m50

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Re: East Canada zulu coverage?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2015, 07:00:46 AM »
This raises some interesting issues,,
,,I take up the issue as a listener in Ireland where we have over flying traffic of the majority of transatlantic flights to Europe handled by Shannon ATC ...Therefore the Live ATC streaming of EINN gives excellent coverage of traffic coming into Europe from the west... This is in contrast to traffic coming off the ocean to North America,  ,Here once the flights come into North American landfall their land entry points are spread over a much wider area and spread over a wide number of ATC entry points .This makes it difficult to capture in one,two or even three streams these incoming flights. Technically and geographicaly,over such a wide entry ,this is not possible
What would help would be two or three well positioned streams closest to the busiest land entry points 
This poses a challenge to some well positioned person in the Newfoundland area
On the very positive side, in Live ATC,  listeners have an excellent choice of fine Atlantic H F streams well placed on the east coast to give great listening to Atlantic traffic

As is said above it would be great if  a helpful listener in Newfoundland could take up the VHF challenge !!!   M50 DUBLIN IRELAND

Offline 777lrf

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Re: East Canada zulu coverage?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2015, 05:10:30 PM »
This raises some interesting issues,,
,,I take up the issue as a listener in Ireland where we have over flying traffic of the majority of transatlantic flights to Europe handled by Shannon ATC ...Therefore the Live ATC streaming of EINN gives excellent coverage of traffic coming into Europe from the west... This is in contrast to traffic coming off the ocean to North America,  ,Here once the flights come into North American landfall their land entry points are spread over a much wider area and spread over a wide number of ATC entry points .This makes it difficult to capture in one,two or even three streams these incoming flights. Technically and geographicaly,over such a wide entry ,this is not possible
What would help would be two or three well positioned streams closest to the busiest land entry points 
This poses a challenge to some well positioned person in the Newfoundland area
On the very positive side, in Live ATC,  listeners have an excellent choice of fine Atlantic H F streams well placed on the east coast to give great listening to Atlantic traffic

As is said above it would be great if  a helpful listener in Newfoundland could take up the VHF challenge !!!   M50 DUBLIN IRELAND

Too bad EINN is all grouped into one station. If it could be grouped into EINN (airport approach, departure, ground, tower) and then EINN Shannon Control. Even splitting up Shannon Control into 2 or 3 stations would be nice, that way it would be easier to hear all the traffic, rather than a jumble of broadcasts all grouped together.

I agree Newfoundland coverage would be a perfect addition.

Offline m50

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Re: East Canada zulu coverage?
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2015, 09:01:23 AM »
Are there any   NEWFOUNDLAND   volunteers out there ??? M50

Offline Jonathank

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Re: East Canada zulu coverage?
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2015, 08:54:42 PM »
Thanks for tuning in to my feed.  I have seen one picture of the Noranda sector controller in the media, when CPDLC was launched.  I zoomed in to the intercom/hotline screen, noticed 9 frequencies were lit up, while the UTC time showed mid afternoon local time in Montreal. During their peak times, they cover Timmins (133.975) Moosonee (118.975) Rouyn/Val d'Or (120,725) and a host of other frequencies with sectors that are unknown to my knowledge. During some evenings/overnights and weekends, pilots have asked the controller how many frequencies and sectors they're covering? The controller replied, approximately 20 frequencies during the off-peak time. They also cover Chibougamau (133,025) LaGrande (133,775).  Off-peak time, they add about ten more frequencies including Caniapiscau on 119,400 which leads pilots in to their Oceanic clearances.  Sometimes, the Caniapiscau sector controller at night relieves Gander Ctr., clearance delivery when they're closed, which is between 2h00am EDT and 5h00EDT or something within that range.

Before 2002 or 2003, the Timmins high level frequency 133,975 used to originate from Toronto centre, either combined with the Timmins/Moosonee low level sectors or worked as a stand-alone high level sectors that linked up with Moosonee, North Bay-Sudbury and maybe Picton on 124,67.  Due to an increased workload and reduce sector hand-offs, they deemed in easier to combined Timmins/Moosonee high level with all of the northern/central Quebec sectors and allows for bilingual english/french dialogue.

The challenge is, knowing which frequency the pilot is talking on, unless you track the flight on FlightAware or FlightRadar24 and try to match their present position.


Offline JetScan1

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Re: East Canada zulu coverage?
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2015, 10:34:07 PM »
Quote
Thanks for tuning in to my feed.

Thanks for providing that Montreal Center feed from Timmins ! Much appreciated.

Interesting feed in the overnight hours, as you mention when they merge all the sectors they cover close to 20 frequencies, this will often include the airspace all they way up to Iqaluit, Nunavut, a distance of over 1000 miles.

Best way to listen to overnight traffic is off the archives then using a program like Audacity remove the silence between transmissions. Last night in the 5 hours between 05Z and 10Z there was just under about 60 minutes of continuous talk after the silence was removed. The playback feature on Flightradar24 is handy as well.

These dedicated Center feeds are great, hopefully we can get some more of them.


Offline Jonathank

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Re: East Canada zulu coverage?
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2015, 06:36:42 AM »
Well before launching my scanners on LIVE ATC, I used to use digital voice recorders for my Timmins FSS and Toronto feeds and listen to about 3-6 hours of "already edited" conversations, just to tune in to stuck mics, misunderstandings, funny conversations, incidents, etc.  Now that LIVE ATC records 45 days of archives, I can go back by date/time and retrieve a sound file.

These Montreal high level sector controllers must rotate their shifts every hour.  I still wonder if they  staff up to 3 controllers to cover Timmins/Moose/Rouyn, another for the NW section and a 3rd body for the the North and eastern sectors. 

One Toronto centre controller told me some ten years ago that when 3 controllers are on duty, they'll work for example, the Timmins-Moosonee low sector for 90 minutes, take a 45 minute break and switch to Sudbury/North Bay.  Or, if they are staff with 4 controllers, they work the same airspace for one hour on and off. 

Nonetheless, my high level sector coverage interests a lot of you listeners.  Great to hear the hand-offs with nearby high level sectors and get PIREPS of significant weather.  Not to mention, I kept a few frequencies open in scan mode where you can only hear the pilot, to break up the silence between transmissions.