LiveATC Discussion Forums
Air Traffic Monitoring => Listener Forum => Topic started by: dave on July 17, 2007, 11:33:13 PM
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Our thoughts and prayers go out to our brothers and sisters in Brazil.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070718/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane_crash
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Yes, a terrible tragedy indeed.
KP
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That's unfortunate. Some runways are just too short - errors cause far greater consequences when they're short like that. How could they let a runway operate like that, without the grooving and all?
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Tragically, this was an accident waiting to happen. With two short runways,
and being completely surrounded by buildings and residences, there was
absolutely no room for error. Everyone new it was dangerous, but as usual,
nothing gets done until there is a terrible, tragic loss of life.
Our thoughts and prayers to the loved ones...
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Its amazing that this was allowed to happen knowing the history of that particular runway, even when it is in proper condition ( grooving )
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That's unfortunate. Some runways are just too short - errors cause far greater consequences when they're short like that. How could they let a runway operate like that, without the grooving and all?
I don't think the length of the runway was an issue, especially for the A320, which was the plane in question. From looking at the layout, the runway in question is about 6300ft long. By contrast, 19R/1L at KSNA is 5701ft long, and the heaviest jets they have landing and departing there are B757s, A300s, and A310s. A320s, B737s, B717s/MD80s should be able to handle 6300ft with no problem.
The Media is saying that the runway is too short; but then again, has the media reported anything right, when it comes to incidents like this, or even good plugs for that matter? :roll: :-)
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A better explanation than a short runway is right there in the opening paragraphs of the article Dave linked above (emphasis below is mine):
SAO PAULO, Brazil - The pilot of an airliner that burst into flames after trying to land on a short, rain-slicked runway apparently tried to take off again, barely clearing rush-hour traffic on a major highway. The death toll rose Wednesday to 189 and could climb higher.
The TAM airlines Airbus-320 flight that originated in Porto Alegre in southern Brazil on Tuesday cleared the airport fence at the end of the runway and the busy highway but slammed into a gas station and a TAM building, causing an inferno.
Any runway could be too short if an improper landing is aborted by taking off again.
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It's frustrating how the media will report speculation as fact just so they can be the first to report something. Plane crashes seem to put them in "report first, verify later" mode more than anything else. Unless I've missed something, I don't see how anyone could know yet if the pilot attempted to go around. It's no wonder no one trusts the media much these days.
KP
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One thrust reverser turned off on TAM jet.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BRAZIL_PLANE_CRASH?SITE=ORBEN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2007-07-20-06-47-17
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Any further updates?
This is the latest I've read...
Focus in Brazil jetliner crash shifts from runway.
Debate over the cause of Brazil's worst air crash shifted on Thursday from widespread claims of a faulty runway to potential pilot error or failure of the plane's brakes
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Any further updates?
This is the latest I've read...
Focus in Brazil jetliner crash shifts from runway.
Debate over the cause of Brazil's worst air crash shifted on Thursday from widespread claims of a faulty runway to potential pilot error or failure of the plane's brakes
Doubt it's the brakes, especially if a thrust reverser was turned off, let alone not to be fixed until after the next scheduled flight. The runway wasn't grooved, so the water remained on the runway, but it definitely did not have anything to do with the length of the runway.
BL.
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There is some news about the cause, it is blamed on pilot error:
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3&art_id=nw20070728174338603C188950 (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3&art_id=nw20070728174338603C188950)
While the left turbine was thrust in reverse and was helping the aeroplane slow down, the right one was accelerating, according to Veja.
Contrary to earlier reports the plane did not skid on the wet runway, nor did the aeroplane's brakes malfunction.
In defense of the pilot I'ld mention that the malfunctioning thrust reverser played an essential role...