Author Topic: US air traffic network "costly, outdated," according to an AP story  (Read 4968 times)

Offline KSYR-pjr

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Wonderful... more myths about commercial air traffic delays, which continue to mislead the uninformed masses.

U.S. air-traffic network outdated, costly
(link to the entire CNN article)
Quote
CHICAGO (AP)  -- A World War II-era air traffic network that often forces planes to take longer, zigzagging routes is costing U.S. airlines billions of dollars in wasted fuel while an upgrade to a satellite-based system has languished in the planning stages for more than a decade.

The $35 billion plan would replace the current radar system with the kind of GPS technology that has become commonplace in cars and cell phones. Supporters say it would triple air traffic capacity, reduce delays by at least half, improve safety and curb greenhouse gas emissions.

What about the children?   They benefit too, no?

(psst - the real story for those scratching their heads as to why something labeled "NextGen" might not really be the next best thing since indoor plumbing is this:  No matter how efficient the routing, the weak link will always be EXTREME ARRIVING AND DEPARTING VOLUME at airports like JFK, BOS, LAX, ORD, and ATL, as well as adverse WEATHER, two very important ingredients that will never be addressed by GPS direct routing.  You think controllers at these airports really want triple the volume than they currently work?)

I read an article in this month's Aviation Safety that stated there are some in the government who are actually trying to blame general aviation for the delays in rolling out NextGen.   Something about all those whiny, pissant GA pilots afraid to sink another 10k (or a box of ziti, as Tony Soprano calls it) into a government promise that has the same signature as, oh I don't know, TIS*??

* = TIS stands for Traffic Information Service, which is part of the traffic and weather uplinked via data streams received by Mode S transponders.  This new program was enthusiastically rolled out by the FAA and then subsequently removed from many radar facilities after software upgrades a mere three years later.  Those pissant pilot/owners who spent the $6k for equipment and another $1k or so for installation were not pleased.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 11:32:24 PM by KSYR-pjr »



pilot221

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Re: US air traffic network "costly, outdated," according to an AP story
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2008, 12:04:32 AM »
Yes, this "kind of GPS technology" means we can put them 1 mile apart and 3 on a runway at the same time...right? No? How else would it triple capacity?

This NextGen thing where we become air traffic monitors is flawed in so many ways but whatever, lets let everyone think it's amazing. It won't work.

I'm glad they haven't wasted the money on runways and staffing. We all know that wouldn't work.

Offline w0x0f

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Re: US air traffic network "costly, outdated," according to an AP story
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2008, 11:37:37 AM »
Fortunately, we have Don Brown who can explain this in terms of reality and safety.

http://gettheflick.blogspot.com/2008/01/air-traffic-safety-vs-capacity.html

w0x0f

Offline w0x0f

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Re: US air traffic network "costly, outdated," according to an AP story
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2008, 01:29:43 PM »
Looks like Don Brown read this article also and replied in a post called "Dead Wrong."

http://gettheflick.blogspot.com/2008/10/dead-wrong.html

w0x0f

Offline PHL Approach

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Re: US air traffic network "costly, outdated," according to an AP story
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2008, 02:52:01 PM »
IMO, it's not the Radar System that is outdated. It's our damn communications systems and frequency trunks.

Offline cactushp

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Re: US air traffic network "costly, outdated," according to an AP story
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2008, 05:50:59 PM »
If anything is outdated, it is our runways, which we need more of them. Remember you could only put so many airplanes an hour on one runway.

Offline Chananya Freedman

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Re: US air traffic network "costly, outdated," according to an AP story
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2008, 05:55:47 PM »
I agree.

Chananya

Offline RV1

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Re: US air traffic network "costly, outdated," according to an AP story
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2008, 12:13:19 AM »
Over a year ago, Popular Mechanics, a magazine I always thought was 'up' on the current cool stuff, had an article claiming that the planes were wasting fuel and amassing delays because they had to fly zigzag patterns in the sky FROM RADAR SITE TO RADAR SITE!
      Folks, I don't even know where all the radar sites are, let alone you pilots! And really, how would you know when you were over one? Do you hear a bleep?
(Some of those bleeps aren't from the equipment.) Do you have special 'radar' maps telling you which one to smile at as you pass it?
     The tragedy is that the FAA is selling snakeoil to the public and the media, without doing its own verification of information, is buying it, HL&S. (hook line and sinker). If you actually go to the FAA's own documentation, and read past the first few pages, you'll see where NEXGEN will actually help the flying public and reduce delays for aircraft. Where? Areas like Alaska and the ocean! Areas where normal radar coverage is nearly impossible. This is where Nex shines because oceanic flights DO fly specific paths, so that non-radar equipped controllers can separate one plane from another (that they can't 'see') by the use of time-over-fix and altitude. When? The report states sometime between 2018 and 2025! Being able to 'see' the planes crossing the oceans and travelling through places like Alaska by using satellites, makes a lot of sense. Saying that delays will be reduced over the contiguous U.S. is a farce. Telling congress that the reason for Nexgen's delays is the fault of private pilots and their little bug smashers smells so much like doggy doo-doo, but its not the first time for that peculiar odor. The first time was when the FAA laid the blame for the late Nexgen at the feet and salaries of the controllers. Anyone notice a pattern here?
     How about the commercials that the airlines were putting out with the animated airplanes reminiscent of the 'CARS' characters. The airline planes had to wait because the corp jet and private planes were slowing down the system. In 20 years, I've NEVER held an air carrier so that I could let a GA go first, unless it was operationally advantageous or first come first served. What a deceptive piece of misinformation! I'm sure that the delays had NOTHING at all to do with the fact that at the destination airport, there were 90 scheduled air carrier arrivals for that hour with an airport acceptance rate of 50.
     I read an FAA report from at least 10 years ago, pre 9-11, that talked about nexgen. It stated that nexgen would help in the areas like I described above, BUT WOULD NOT REPLACE RADAR, just be in addition to it. It was vital that there be radar sites along all of our boarders! Why do you think that would be important? This is an FAA report!  It seems to me that they need to read their own report...
     How many of you caught Marion Blakey saying recently, that a certain piece of technology that her company produced was on time and under budget when it reached the facilities? Can anyone remember ANY FAA project that was on time and under budget in the last 20 years? I can remember in '89, at my first facility, I was told that the big room was for the sector suites that will be installed within two years. Um, they weren't...
« Last Edit: October 11, 2008, 12:08:03 PM by RV1 »