Author Topic: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax  (Read 17632 times)

Offline 13ifs40

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ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« on: February 02, 2016, 01:09:11 PM »
Good afternoon all

    I have an question regarding an atc sector that seemed to be in use today and what freq aircraft would be broadcasting
on.    aircraft on the following nat track   E DINIM 51/20 48/30 45/40 43/50 JEBBY CARAC would talk to whom before boston
on 133.45?     

thanks for everyones help in advance

13ifs40



Offline RonR

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2016, 01:14:13 PM »
That could very well be Moncton Center on 135.2.  When flights go eastbound through ZBW 133.45, they generally get handed off to Moncton on that frequency.  I hope that helps.

Ron

Offline 13ifs40

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2016, 02:11:48 PM »
thanks RonR       I was listen to the 135.2 Moncton feed and could not hear them.    I was wondering if they might be
talking to NYC on 125.92 or arinc Freq


13ifs40

Offline JetScan1

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2016, 04:06:06 PM »
Quote
I was listen to the 135.2 Moncton feed and could not hear them. I was wondering if they might be talking to NYC on 125.92 or arinc Freq

135.20 is the correct sector/frequency before Boston 133.45. If it gets busy enough they can split this sector in 2 or 3 and use 132.97 and/or 128.37 as well.

There seems to be something wrong with the LiveATC "CYQI/CZQM CTAF/FIC/Center" feed, reception is very poor which might explain why you didn't hear anything, if that's the feed you are talking about ?

Offline 13ifs40

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2016, 07:16:41 AM »
OK   it must be the poor reception,    but I was wondering even if the aircraft seem to be 50 to 100 miles or more south
of Halifax they still talk to Moncton center?

thanks

13ifs40

Offline JetScan1

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2016, 09:00:32 AM »
Quote
I was wondering even if the aircraft seem to be 50 to 100 miles or more south of Halifax they still talk to Moncton center?

Yes, the Moncton Sector extends to about 160 miles south of Halifax.

You can pull up the High Altitude chart here (click World Hi) ...

https://skyvector.com/

Unfortunately the CTA sector boundary between Moncton (VHF) and New York Oceanic (HF) is not completely depicted on the chart. If you contiune the line shown through AVAST the CTA border extends to NOVOK then to JEBBY, anything north of that is talking to Moncton on VHF.

This is not to be confused with the FIR boundary that is depicted on the chart, this only applies from FL280 and below. Between the FIR and CTA boundaries Moncton (VHF) owns the airspace from FL290 and above while New York (HF) owns from FL280 and below. Probably because of reception range issues at the lower altitudes from the Yarmouth and Halifax RCAG's ? 


Offline 13ifs40

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2016, 09:25:19 AM »
Wow     thanks for your info     traffic today seems to be running in that area so I will see how I do with Moncton center today


thanks again

13ifs40

Offline shanestrong

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2016, 03:27:18 PM »
Hey Guys my CYQI feed will be updated with new equipment and a preamp this weekend expect outages but should be better the first of the week
Shane

Offline RonR

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Re:
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2016, 03:49:41 PM »
Sounds good Shane! Looking forward to listening!

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


Offline shanestrong

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2016, 05:21:03 PM »
almost everything set up waiting for upgraded internet and and all should be good sometime on the 16th
Shane

Offline shanestrong

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2016, 10:27:13 AM »
new equipment installed and now back online feb 17, 2016

Offline JetScan1

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2016, 02:08:58 PM »
Quote
new equipment installed and now back online feb 17, 2016

It sounds much better. Thanks for the update !

Offline 13ifs40

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2016, 08:36:27 AM »
hello

   just been listening in and there seems to a lot of electrical sounds but not much actual atc transmissions
I have been listening from 7am to 8:35am est    and based on planefinder.net there is traffic in the area


thanks

13ifs40

Offline JetScan1

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2016, 09:22:01 AM »
Quote
just been listening in and there seems to a lot of electrical sounds but not much actual atc transmissions I have been listening from 7am to 8:35am est and based on planefinder.net there is traffic in the area

I pulled up the archives from 7:00 to 8:30 EST (12:00-13:30 UTC) and heard lots of traffic, both in the high and low sectors. Controller reception is very good considering the distance from the transmitter. There is some intermittent interference, it almost sounds like bleedover from a paging system (?).



Offline 13ifs40

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2016, 09:23:48 AM »
must be the ghost in the machine       nats tracks west are in this area today so it should be a busy day

question     why don't I hear them tell aircraft to go to boston center?

is that done by CPDLC

Offline RonR

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2016, 09:29:59 AM »
I was listening yesterday for a while and heard handoffs to Boston on 134.95 and also 133.45.

Regarding CPDLC...I also heard the Moncton controller call a flight asking if they had just requested a specific speed via CPDLC.  The flight answered "yes" and the controller kindly asked them to make those kinds of requests via voice and not to use CPDLC for that...

Not sure why they would want to use CPDLC to ask for something rather than asking the controller directly...

Ron
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 09:38:16 AM by RonR »

Offline 13ifs40

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2016, 09:41:31 AM »
ok    thanks for the answer



Offline JetScan1

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2016, 09:58:05 AM »
Quote
why don't I hear them tell aircraft to go to boston center? is that done by CPDLC

Moncton (and all Canadian ATC for that matter) use CPDLC for a lot of functions, most of the handoffs in this area (in high level airspace) are done using CPDLC, so you won't hear anything.

These are the supported CPDLC functions.

A4471/14 NOTAMR A2776/14
Q) CZQM/QCDXX/IV/NBO/E /000/999/4729N08055W999
A) CZQM
B) 1406091318
C) PERM
E) CZQM WEF 2014 APR 12 1300
CPDLC PHASE 1, 2, AND 3 FOR MONCTON ACC IMPLEMENTED WITHIN HIGH
LEVEL AIRSPACE FL290 AND ABOVE AS PER AIC 15/14.
ONLY THE FOLLOWING DOWNLINK MESSAGES WILL BE SUPPORTED BY MONCTON
ACC:
DM0 - WILCO
DM1 - UNABLE
DM2 - STANDBY
DM3 - ROGER
DM4 - AFFIRM
DM5 - NEGATIVE
DM6 - REQUEST (ALT)
DM9 - REQUEST CLIMB TO (ALT)
DM10 - REQUEST DESCENT TO (ALT)
DM18 - REQUEST (SPEED)
DM20 - REQUEST VOICE CONTACT
DM21 - REQUEST VOICE CONTACT (FREQ)
DM22 - REQUEST DIRECT TO (POS)
DM28 - LEAVING (ALT)
DM29 - CLIMBING TO (ALT)
DM30 - DESCENDING TO (ALT)
DM32 - PRESENT ALTITUDE (ALT)
DM34 - PRESENT SPEED (SPEED)
DM37 - LEVEL (ALT)
DM38 - ASSIGNED LEVEL (LEVEL)
DM39 - ASSIGNED SPEED (SPEED)
DM47 - SQUAWKING (CODE)
DM55 - PAN PAN PAN
DM56 - MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY
DM57 - (FUEL) (FUEL2) FUEL REMAINING (SOULS) SOULS ON BOARD
DM58 - CANCEL EMERGENCY
DM60 - OFFSETTING (DOFF) (DIR) OF ROUTE
DM61 - DESCENDING TO (ALT)
DM62 - ERROR (ERROR INFORMATION)
DM63 - NOT CURRENT DATA AUTHORITY
DM64 - (ICAO FACILITY DESIGNATION)
DM65 - DUE WEATHER
DM66 - DUE AIRCRAFT PERFORMANCE
DM67 - FREE TEXT
DM80 - DEVIATING (DOFF) (DIR) OF ROUTE
ANY DOWNLINK MESSAGE OTHER THAN THE ABOVE WILL GENERATE A 'MESSAGE
NOT SUPPORTED BY THIS FACILITY' RESPONSE FROM THE GROUND SYSTEM.

Quote
I also heard the Moncton controller call a flight asking if they had just requested a specific speed via CPDLC.  The flight answered "yes" and the controller kindly asked them to make those kinds of requests via voice and not to use CPDLC for that

Speed changes are supported so not sure why the controller would ask them not to use CPDLC ? Can you remember the approximate time so I can check the archive to get context ? Maybe he was talking about his speed pertaining to his oceanic clearance ?

Offline 13ifs40

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2016, 10:13:07 AM »
Interesting

   makes you long for the good ole days before CPDLC started     


13ifs40

Offline RonR

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2016, 12:15:51 PM »
Speed changes are supported so not sure why the controller would ask them not to use CPDLC ? Can you remember the approximate time so I can check the archive to get context ? Maybe he was talking about his speed pertaining to his oceanic clearance ?

Thanks for that Jet!  I did not know that!  I want to say it was sometime in the morning but I can't be sure...I quickly went through the archives from 1900 to 2200Z and couldn't find it.  I'm guessing it was earlier than that.  I'll keep checking...I want to know too now  :-)

Offline shanestrong

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2016, 02:52:57 AM »
ok guys after much digging here is some info on why you hear some stuff not all,
first of all lets look at the sectors:
(Bay of Fundy Ref Point)
Digby Sectors
123.900
132.200
(Yarmouth & Area Ref Point)
Tusky &
Brad Sector 135.200
( South of Yarmouth off Shore Ref Point)
Wale &
Kanni Sector 132.975 (not used as much as above)
(South of Yarmouth way off shore past Stable island Ref Point and is last before being on Boston ATC)
Vitol Sector 128.375  (even less used then Wale/Kanni)
Then you have Boston ATC
133.450
129.900
I am currently trying to see which channels are getting used I got 119.200 up Moncton Ap/Dep but I don't think its getting anything
I haven't added Digby low yet 132.500 which I just found out about will do some testing with it.
Then I have Halifax FIC 123.550 not sure if anything is on that.
and Yarmouth Unicom 123.00
and then there is 133.950 which is a special east bound channel that is open only at certain times for east bound traffic only ( will see if I can get this)
Then there is 368.5, 294.5 which I can not tune in with my scanner.
So why can't I hear anything certain times of day and why can I hear a lot at certain times:
Moncton ATC does what they call Cross Channel Coupling, and Simulcasting on Channels. ie combining certain areas  lets say 1&2 and giving it one controller depending on the time of day and busyness.
Often with Moncton ATC you will see 1 of 3  either all Sectors combined, Carlo/Fredericton/Digby combined and Moncton/Cape Breton Combined.
You can see these sectors on air charts.
also Moncton atc opens a special channel depending on traffic and time of day 133.950 for aircraft coming from Boston/NYC going east.
also I think there may be another southern freq 132.875 I have to look into.
Just remember the furest southern channel is Vitol Sector 128.375 before you have to go to a American feed.
and then there is also what was mentioned CDPLC
I have just found some more freq I am going to try  wale sec 120.375,132.950,135.775 and digby sec 135.500 will get back on these
and the occasional paging noise may be something to do with the coupling of freq not sure?
hope this helps a bit

here is another reference:
http://marscan.com/aeroCZQMnarcmapandnotes.htm
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?aid=3967
http://forums.radioreference.com/aircraft-monitoring-forum/317886-moncton-centre-sectors-simulcasts-cross-coupling.html
« Last Edit: February 20, 2016, 02:55:18 AM by shanestrong »

Offline JetScan1

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2016, 09:06:55 AM »
Quote
I am currently trying to see which channels are getting used I got 119.200 up Moncton Ap/Dep but I don't think its getting anything

119.20 is Halifax App/Dep, and you are getting traffic on this frequency.

Quote
there is 133.950 which is a special east bound channel that is open only at certain times for east bound traffic only ( will see if I can get this)

The transmitter for 133.95 is in Halifax so you won't hear the controller. The only aircraft that would use this frequency will be out of your reception range from Yarmouth.  

Quote
also I think there may be another southern freq 132.875 I have to look into.

The other frequency is 132.975, the transmitter is at Yarmouth so you should be able to hear the controller the same as on 135.20 and 128.375. These 3 frequencies are usually cross-coupled together so you will hearing the same thing on all 3 most of the time.  

Quote
more freq I am going to try wale sec 120.375,132.950,135.775 and digby sec 135.500 will get back on these

132.950 is well out of range from your location, I've never heard of Moncton using 120.375 (?) maybe it's a typo and you mean 120.325 which is also to far for you to hear anything. 135.775 is also to far away.

The adjacent high sectors to the north that you should be able to hear traffic on are 127.125 and 132.700. Although keep in mind that during the slow times these areas are combined and cross-coupled with 135.20/132.97/128.37 anyway.

135.500 is always combined with 123.900, I think it's cross-coupled but I'll have to listen some more to confirm ?

Quote
the occasional paging noise may be something to do with the coupling of freq not sure?

Can you isolate the interference to one frequency or is it coming through on more than one ? Maybe if it was only coming through on one frequency, and it was one of the less used ones you could remove it from the scan bank ?


Offline shanestrong

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2016, 12:00:12 PM »
Thanks for the info, its a lot of info on the net to learn :) actually the interference is on one of the 12? channels I wrote it down once but have to relisten to see which one and it seems to be a busy channel. I am going to put a airband filter on and see if that takes it away

Offline shanestrong

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2016, 06:25:53 PM »
the offending channel with the alert sound is 128.375 which seems to have had a lot of traffic today  I was picking up 128.375, 123.900, 132.975

Offline JetScan1

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Re: ATC sector east of cape cod and nantucket due south of Halifax
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2016, 06:38:35 PM »
Quote
the offending channel with the alert sound is 128.375 which seems to have had a lot of traffic today

Most of the time 128.375 will be combined and cross-coupled with 135.200 and 132.975 (ie: you are hearing the same controller on all 3 frequencies). As 128.375 is so rarely isolated by itself and there is a lot of interference at times it might be better to remove it ? Any chance you could run a test with it locked out (removed) for a few days to compare reception ?

You also have 132.20 listed as a frequency, not sure if you actually have it on there or not, but you are too far away to hear any aircraft on this frequency. It doesn't matter anyway because any traffic on 132.20 will be heard through 123.900 as the frequencies seemed to be always cross-coupled. So it makes sense to remove 132.20 if you have it there.  

Also it seems like you have a delay set on some frequencies ? It would help greatly if any delay could be removed as you are missing calls from some aircraft if the scanner stops on one of the other frequencies in use.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2016, 06:44:00 PM by JetScan1 »