Approach Comms

[Scrapper]

Good evening all... I'm an air controller in the canadian navy just writing for the second time but an avid listener of liveatc for a while (at least a year if not more...)  I'm fairly familiar with air control terms civilian side, especially when it comes to terminal control stuff (canada's version of TRACON) as it is my goal to eventually end up at Montreal Centre working Terminal with Nav Canada (I'm originally from Montreal)... however, I heard a new one today I had never heard before...
tonight at CYYZ TCU they were asking planes to "leave four on the glidepath", "leave six on the glidepath"... what is this about? I'm familiar with letting planes know what their sequence is, but that usually sounds more like "you're number 2 for 24R" and is usually tacked on to the end of their clearance (ie. AC 110 turn left to 270 for the intercept, cleared the ILS approach 24 Right, you're number 2 behind a company Airbus" anyone know what this "leave four on the glide" is all about?  I noticed when I first started reading this message board the other day that there are a few current and former Nav Canada's out there... maybe you guys could help me figure this one out...
If I knew anything about how to attach a clip I would do it to help with an example but since they stopped saying it, and I can't do it, no sound clip... sorry... maybe someone can help me with that as well? hehe... Looking forward to talking to you all soon...

[KSYR-pjr]

"leave four on the glidepath", "leave six on the glidepath"... what is this about?

Just a State-side pilot here, but I would speculate that the controller is issuing an altitude restriction with the permission to leave that altitude once on the glideslope.

In other words, "Leave four on the glidepath" would translate to, "maintain 4,000, cleared to descend when intercepting the glideslope at 4,000."

Again, just speculation based on the clues in that wording.  If I were flying into Toronto and received that instruction, I would most certainly query the controller for clarification as that phraseology is not used in the States.

[msk1172]

Pete is pretty much correct.  This is a canadian thing and I've never heard it used in the U.S.  When the controllers up there say "leave XXX on the glide" it is analagous to when U.S. controllers say "maintain XXX until established on the localizer"



Mike

[binky]

'Leave x,xxx on the glideslope' is used at CYYZ in order to preserve vertical separation between the adjacent parallel runways when they are conducting simultaneous parallel independant ILS approaches on the east-west runways.  The arrival controller or controllers must maintain vertical separation between aircraft on final and those joining final on a parallel runway so it is not enough to simply say 'maintain x,xxx until established' because with an approach clearance this would permit the aircraft to vacate their last assigned altitude.  'Leave x,xxx on the glide slope' forces the aircraft to remain level and only descend when on the glide slope so that they may turn aircraft final along side the restricted one.  When you do not hear the extra restriction added on by the controller, it probably means that there is no relevant parallel traffic to require it.

[Jonathan_tcu]

Here in the Timmins sector, non radar, the pilots are asked to report leaving 'five' or report leaving 'four' AFTER the hand off to FSS for the final approach.  This, in order to co-ordinate other non radar traffic in and out of the control zone.  Leaving five being 5000 thousand and four being 4000 thousand.

[Runhog]

Good evening all... I'm an air controller in the canadian navy just writing for the second time but an avid listener of liveatc for a while (at least a year if not more...)  I'm fairly familiar with air control terms civilian side, especially when it comes to terminal control stuff (canada's version of TRACON) as it is my goal to eventually end up at Montreal Centre working Terminal with Nav Canada (I'm originally from Montreal)... however, I heard a new one today I had never heard before...
tonight at CYYZ TCU they were asking planes to "leave four on the glidepath", "leave six on the glidepath"... what is this about? I'm familiar with letting planes know what their sequence is, but that usually sounds more like "you're number 2 for 24R" and is usually tacked on to the end of their clearance (ie. AC 110 turn left to 270 for the intercept, cleared the ILS approach 24 Right, you're number 2 behind a company Airbus" anyone know what this "leave four on the glide" is all about?  I noticed when I first started reading this message board the other day that there are a few current and former Nav Canada's out there... maybe you guys could help me figure this one out...
If I knew anything about how to attach a clip I would do it to help with an example but since they stopped saying it, and I can't do it, no sound clip... sorry... maybe someone can help me with that as well? hehe... Looking forward to talking to you all soon...

Hi Scrapper, I'm an ATC type in the Canadian Air Force. Can't say I've heard what you described before but I'm guessing it's a local procedure to abbreviate the R/T during periods of heavy traffic. And since it's TO, thats probably always. Don't remember reading that in MANOPS so I'll stick with my guess. What binky said makes perfect sense to me.

If your looking at NAVCAN in Montreal, a good amount of them are ex-military so you'll fit in just fine.

[Scrapper]

Yeah I met some of them last summer already... it was like being in a room full of people just like me... hehe...

It'll either be that (if I get in), or I may have to put on an air force uniform... one way or the other, sailing for months at a time, as fun as it is, is getting old! hehe... and the navy is really like the mob... the longer you're in it, the harder it is to get out, because you're so USED to it... hehe...