airtraffic

Author Topic: ***HELP PLEASE! with my Auckland (NZ) ATC scanner.***  (Read 15194 times)

Offline cheekyytrolly

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***HELP PLEASE! with my Auckland (NZ) ATC scanner.***
« on: January 10, 2006, 11:31:49 PM »
Hi people,
I recenetly purchased my Uniden 72XLT scanner (See here; http://www.uniden.co.nz/NEW_ZEALAND/p_ubc72xlt_index.asp ) and have been avidly listening to the air traffic around my city, Auckland, New Zealand. I need someone with local knowlage (for most the questions anyway) to answer the few questions I have:

1.   
Please read my 'frequency bank list' that has all the frequences stored on my scanner here: http://h1.ripway.com/djdarius/MyFrequenceyBank.doc  and tell me any more frequencies I have missed that you suggest I listen for, and are all the ones above correct?

2.   
What is the difference between “Auckland Area Control” , “Auckland Control North” , “Auckland “North Control” , “Auckland Control South” and “Auckland Control Central North Island” ?

3.   
What is “Auckland Information” exactly, and if it is controlled by Christchurch, what do you hear when you tune into it?

4.   
What exactly is “Auckland RADAR” ?

5.   
What is “Auckland Control Ardmore”

6.   
How come I can only hear the aircraft's talking to the Tower on landing, but not the aircraft's talking to the tower on take off, or the people in the tower on both situations?

7.   
What is the correct frequency for “Auckland Control North Island” , 119.5 or 125.5?

8.   
What is the best frequency to tune into to hear light GA (propeller planes) over the city and surrounding area just announcing their position (eg: Tracking south from North Head to Rangitoto)

9.   
Why do airlines have their own frequencies and what do they use them for?

10.   
Do you know the frequencies for “Mountain Air” or “Air Nelson” or “RNZAF Northern Ops”

11.
How come I can't hear the airplanes requesting permission to land, but only announcing that they are landing, then saying "cleared to land" ? I only hear for example "Qantas 404 on finals runway 23"


12.
Is there any way I can hook my scanner up to my PC?


13.
What is a "6 mile appoach" ?

14.
Why do planes announce how many passengers they have on board?


My local international airport is Auckland International (NZAA) and my local GA field is Ardmore (NZAR)

Please answer ASAP or email me at cheekytrolly at hotmail.com

Cheers,
Andrew



Offline Kalpazan

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***HELP PLEASE! with my Auckland (NZ) ATC scanner.***
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2006, 12:39:16 AM »
About 6.

Do you have an external antenna attached to the scanner ? If not, consider purchasing one. It will help a lot if you are not too far away from the station (like more than 20 miles)

Offline cheekyytrolly

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***HELP PLEASE! with my Auckland (NZ) ATC scanner.***
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2006, 01:44:52 AM »
What do you mean by "an external antenna" I have the default one shown in the picture below:



It will proberly work better when I'm nearer the airport but is there bigger ones I can get to increase my coverage or something?

Offline Kalpazan

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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2006, 07:38:43 AM »
No, no... that one is mobile... In the "Feed Setup Pictures" forum there are many pictures of external antennas, for example:

http://www.liveatc.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1198

If properly mounted it will increase your scanner coverage for sure.

Offline Tomato

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***HELP PLEASE! with my Auckland (NZ) ATC scanner.***
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2006, 02:34:05 PM »
I'm no expert here, but I'll try and make somewhat of an answer for you...

1) I like LANDINGS.COM - great "quick" resource to various information:
http://www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search/search_ap-ident.html - punch in the 4-letter ICAO airport code and you'll get info including some frequencies for the airport.  It looks like you have a good list though.

2) Those look like different control sectors for Auckland - the north sector, south sector, etc.

3) Auckland Information?  It almost sounds like ATIS, but 118.xx is usually Tower control of some sort.  What is ChrisChurch - is it an area, or?  From tidbits online, it seems like it's for pilots (VFR?) to keep informed about what's going on in the area... somebody else might have a better guess.

4) Hm, not sure about RADAR either, but according to Landings it's an Approach frequency.

5) Ardmore... is that an area in/around Auckland?  It might be their airport/center control?  (Somebody else might know better.)

6) If you can only hear aircraft, you're probably too far from the airport to hear the ground-side of communications.  There are various obstructions, such as trees, buildings, bridges, etc that will reduce signal.  Aircraft in the air have near line-of-sight to you and is one of the basic reasons you can pick them up.

7) No idea, but 119.5 according to this very own LiveATC site is Christchurch Control

8) No idea... are you talking about VFR traffic, or?

9) Airlines have their own freqencies for day-to-day operations I believe... I've actually never listened in on this.

10) I don't know those particular frequencies... I'm sure they're on Google?  heh... :)

11) They're not so much announcing, as they're reading back their clearance OR they're introducing themselves.  If they're being handed over to the Tower from Approach, they'll introduce themselves by stating who they are, where they are/etc.  So: "Auckland Tower, Quantas 404 with you on final to Runway 23."  Auckland Tower sees them on their scope on final and can clear them to land from there.

12) Scanner to PC - it depends... you can connect your scanner audio output (via headphone jack) to your PC's sound card input jack.  Audio will be fed into your PC... if you want to control your scanner, you may require a special data cable and is complete scanner-dependent.

13) 6 mile approach... um, 6 nm left on approach?  Somebody may have better words to describe this... ugh.

14) I haven't heard any pilots announce how many passengers they have on board.  Maybe they're just making conversation?  What they may say though, is "heavy" - meaning they're a large, heavy aircraft.  This is important because of its ability to create a larger wake behind them, causing turbulence to following aircraft.

I'm not an expert here, but I'm giving it a shot... if anybody has any corrections on this, please listen to them!!  :D  Otherwise, welcome to the LiveATC community!  :)

Offline Ronski

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***HELP PLEASE! with my Auckland (NZ) ATC scanner.***
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2006, 11:35:48 AM »
No.13.

    This is usually a report after ATC have requested the Aircraft to continue approach and call (call me back) at 6 DME or ,just, call at 6 miles.

The ATC guys here will give you the exact terminology soon I sure. :)

Just stick with it and keep listening out on this LiveAtc 8)

Offline hopskip

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***HELP PLEASE! with my Auckland (NZ) ATC scanner.***
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2006, 08:02:22 PM »
I think question #9 and question #14 may be related ;)


Each company has it's own frequencys, this way a pilot can call the company directly to talk about issues ATC doesn't care about. This is usefull mostly at the dispatch stage, where a dispatcher can talk to the pilots when there already out at the aircraft and talk about any changes that may have happened to load, fuel requirements, weather, aircraft, or just about anything ATC does not have controll over. This is probably the frequencys you have heard them talking about how many passengers they have on board. Another thing they may talk about is how much fuel or cargo or how much the aircraft weighs (Zero Fuel Weight or Gross Weight). Weight is important in determining how much fuel is needed for a trip and how fast the takeoff and landing speeds are (V1 VR V2 Vref etc)

This is done on a seperate channel to Operational Air Traffic Controll who's prime concern is directing traffic, and keeping aircraft properly seperated while maintaining a good traffic flow.

on Question 11# it would actually be unusual to hear someone "Request Permission To land". Especially IFR traffic. IFR traffic is flying on a filed flight plan, and recieved clearance to fly that plan as filed when they recieved ATC clearance before they took off. After takeoff there is usually an unbroken strain of Air Traffic Controll they are in contact with. At some stage Enroute Controll (Centre, or in the case of NZ, "Controll") will hand them off to the Approach Facility (Usually "Radar" in the NZ) who will vector them if required (Qantas 62 turn heading 050 vectors for downwind runway 26 left), or simply set them on a Standard Arrival Route and controll their altitude (Qantas 62 you are cleared the MASSEY One Bravo Arrival, descend to Flight Level one five zero).

At the appropriate point (usually when the aircraft is alligned with the runway and between 10 and 3 miles away from touchdown) The Radar (or "Approach" or "Director" depending on what they call it in New Zealand) will tell the aircraft something like "Contact Tower now on 120 point 8" which the aircraft will reply "Tower 120 point 8 good day" and then switch their radio to the tower frequency and call in, which can sometimes be as simple as

"Tower, Qantas 62, for runway 23 left"

I'v even heard, in sydney (where I live) aircraft calling tower with nothing but their callsigns, for instance.

"Tower, Qantas 62"


Tower already knows that Radar controll has been talking to the aircraft, as he has just recieved the inbound aircraft's information from that other controller, he knows the aircraft has been positioned by the Radar controller on a position on the centreline and approaching and already descending with the ILS Glideslope, or in DME steps (or visually) to the runway, and knows, from the flightplan, that the aircraft is intending to land. Because of this

"Tower Qantas 62 is approaching runway 23 Left request permission to land"

is silly, since it's obvous that he intends to land on runway 23L, and it's not like the ATC will say "Qantas 62, this is Auckland, You may not land at Auckland because our prime minister has just declared war on Australia since you took off. please turn around and go back to Sydney"

The only options to the tower will be this:

Qantas 62, cleared to land

Qantas 62 continue approach, you are following another aircraft just about to touch down

Qantas 62 there has been an emergency and we are closing the runways, go around and contact Radar again 129.6

Of course if the airport was closed, usually an aircraft wouldn't get as far as final approach before he was told about it, as now he has burned much of his reserve fuel and will use even more of it climbing away from the airport, and will probably be forced to divert to Wellington (or Ardminton which I think is the Air Force Base?)



Anyway there are some charts for Auckland freely available on the internet, This shows the Standard Approach Routes, a map of taxiways at auckland, and a few frequencys perhaps...

It comes from the AIP New Zealand, which is official documentation.

it can be found at

http://www.aip.net.nz/NavWalk.aspx?section=CHARTS&tree=Auckland

and

http://www.aip.net.nz/NavWalk.aspx?section=CHARTS
for these kind of charts for every airfield in NZ.

Australia Airservices has a similar service on the internet also.

Offline hopskip

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***HELP PLEASE! with my Auckland (NZ) ATC scanner.***
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2006, 08:45:32 PM »
8.
What is the best frequency to tune into to hear light GA (propeller planes) over the city and surrounding area just announcing their position (eg: Tracking south from North Head to Rangitoto)


In some cases, (usually actually) GA planes will be flying OCTA (Outside Controlled Airspace) and as such have no requirement to announce their position. Indeed they can go a good 30 - 40 minutes without saying a thing over the radio. Usually they only have to talk to announce position when they are approaching Controlled Airspace requesting to transition through (or to) it... or if they are approaching an airfield they will either fly near, over or land at. Some Airfields don't have a Controll Tower, which is common to small airfields which GA single engine Cessnas and the like may use. In this case they have a "CTAF" which they will announce their position for the benifit of other air traffic. Im not sure of CTAFs in the Auckland area though, as I don't have a VTC map (Visual Terminal Chart)

There is one final service, which is often called "Radar" which is below the approach or director service (although sometimes Approach/Director service is called Radar too in some countries, particularly Europe)

In Australia "Radar" is an advisory service for aircraft underneath Controlled Airspace, he does not "Controll" aircraft as such, but rather helps facilitate such things as weather advisories, general enquiries about traffic in a certain area, Clearances with Controlled airspace when already airborne but OCTA (ie when you know you want to go into Controlled Airspace as a VFR aircraft, you can call Radar and request to enter the CTA, he will then co-ordinate with the relevant controller, and then get back to the pilot with information about his request, or possibly even an entire airways clearance (ie, Cleared to enter the Charlie from overhead *somewhere* not above 2000 feet, squawk code 2116, maintain East of *somewhere*)

Usually this frequency is one of the quieter ones, although if there is a manditory reporting point somewhere for VFR traffic you'll often hear it quite alot.


If you have a GAAP (General Aviation Air Port) anywhere near Auckland, you may hear light aircraft doing circuits and reporting inbound to it etc. In Sydney we have Bankstown Airport which is a GAAP, and you will often hear the following sequences alot

"Bankstown Tower, Mike Hotel Golf 1500 over the Two RN, inbound with Hotel"

which means the aircraft VH-MHG (a Cessna 172) is at 1500 feet over the waypoint known as "TwoRN" (a radio mast) and he has the Information marked as Hotel on the ATIS, copied. and he is "Inbound" ie to either land or join the circuit.

"Mike Hotel Golf 3 miles"
basically means VH-MHG is 3 miles from the runways (with intent to land on one of them)

"Tower, Charlie Lima Sierra Downwind runway 29 left to Land"

VH-CLS is flying parallel to the left of the runway opposite direction to landing at 1000ft above the field and is intending to land on the runway 29 Left.

"Tower Hotel Alpha Tango downwind runway 29 Right touch and go"

VH-HAT is flying parallel to the Right of runway 29 Right opposite direction to landing at 1000ft above the field and is intending to do a touch and go (touch down on the runway, then apply full power and takeoff again without stopping)

Similarily you may hear them advise "On Late Downwind" (ie far down the parallel run) or "Base" (which is 90 degrees off the runway direction, turning from Parallel to Finals, lined up with the runway)

and finally "Finals" which is final approach lined up with the runway to land/touch and go.

Tower has 3 options here

Clear to land
Continue approach (ie traffic still on the runway/approaching the runway in front of the other aircraft)

Go around (don't land on the runway, make a climb away, sometimes this is because the aircraft behind is too close for the other aircraft to vacate the runway before the aircraft behind lands, so a "Go Around" in this situation is to avoid a collision)

Offline The Hoffspatcher

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***HELP PLEASE! with my Auckland (NZ) ATC scanner.***
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2006, 09:07:52 AM »
Did some digging

 :arrow:  New Zealand has four control "zones" or "ARTCCs" they are inside the New Zealand FIR (NZZC) that are responsible for all services inside domestic airspace and the main airports

- Auckland Control (Auckland & Ardmore)
- Wellington Control (Wellington)
- Christchurch Control (Christchurch & Dunedin)
- Ohakea Control (Palmerston North, Hamilton & Ohakea)

 :arrow:  They all have various sectors and as such, various frequencies. North/South etc are simply different sectors

 :arrow: Auckland Information is the equavilant of a Flight Service Station for VFR aircraft

 :arrow: Auckland Radar - not sure

 :arrow: Most of the uncontrolled airspace, ie airports that do not have a control tower and airspace not controlled by AA/WN/CH/OH Control is exactly that, uncontrolled airspace.  Christchurch is the home of Airways NZ and as such, all the radar facilities, except Ohakea which is at the Air Force base, is controlled by Christchurch - meaning it is controlled FROM there - but still uses the "Auckland" callsign)

 :arrow: Auckland Control Ardmore is probably the sector in which Ardmore lies

 :arrow: Depending on your location you may not hear both the tower AND the aircraft

 :arrow: Correct frequency? No idea

 :arrow: If aircraft do not enter controlled airspace, i.e. the Tower control zone or controlled airspace they will be most likely not be monitoring ATC but may self announce on a published unicom frequency but they make talk to Auckland Info if they want to, ie for flight service

 :arrow: An airplane does not "request" permission to land as such, now "Foxtrot Tango Mike is a Cessna overhead Managare recieve your Lima, 1008 two POB request joining instructions for zero five" is a request, where as "New Zealand's two on the unrestricted visual in receipt of Fox and 1021 we have 392 onboard" is simply telling the tower what they are doing, the crew expect to recieve landing clearance

 :arrow: There is probably a way you can hook your scanner up to your P.C. but as to what it is, not sure, Radio Shack or your friendly neighborhood spy store should be of help

 :arrow: A six mile approach is exactly that - he is at six miles (DME usually) from the airport

 :arrow: The CAA requires planes tell the ATIS and people on board in the event of an accident, saves the Tower having to call the company and pass that information onto Airport Rescue & Firefighting, its just a simple "all emergency vechicles respond to Runway X, YYY on board"

Clear as mud?