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Author Topic: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA  (Read 241311 times)

Offline joeyb747

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2014, 08:03:27 PM »
Latest updates from AvHerald article...

"On Mar 11th 2014 the airline reported that the aircraft had accumulated 53,465 flight hours in 7,525 flight cycles since its delivery to Malaysia Airlines in 2002. The aircraft has last undergone maintenance on Feb 23rd 2014. All Malaysia Airlines aircraft are equipped with ACARS transmitting monitoring data automatically. However, no distress call and no information was relayed. The search area has been extended and includes the Strait of Malacca west of Malaysia looking at the possibility that the aircraft may have turned back and diverted to Subang (Malaysia)."

...and...

"Vietnam's Search and Rescue Center later announced that the border guard vessel arriving at the position of the debris field did not find any objects. There were high winds and large waves, the debris possibly drifted away.

On Mar 11th 2014 Malaysia's Air Force reported their primary radar data suggest, the aircraft may have turned west over the Gulf of Thailand at about 1000 meters/3000 feet below the original flight level (editorial note: another possible interpretation could be: at 1000 meters of height compared to 10000 meters original level) and flown past the east coast near Khota Baru and the west coast of Malaysia near Kedah, the radar return was last seen at 02:40L near Pulau Perak in the Straits of Malacca, about 285nm westsouthwest of the last known (secondary) radar position. Local Police at Khota Bharu confirmed a number of locals reported lights and a low flying aircraft at Khota Bharu at an estimated height of 1000 meters/3000 feet.

In the evening of Mar 11th 2014 Vietnam's Search and Rescue Center reported they were expanding their search areas both to the east and west including the South China Sea and Gulf of Thailand. Two Chinese search planes in addition to the Vietnamese ships and aircraft have been operating over Vietnamese waters, so far there has not been any finding. The oil slicks and debris found in the Gulf of Thailand south of Tho Chau Island proved unrelated to MH-370, the field of debris of Mar 10th was determined false alert too."


http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 08:05:03 PM by joeyb747 »

Offline xiangster

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2014, 08:08:13 PM »
It is now over 100 hours since the plane was missing and now according to the RMAF radar  The plane flew around 500 kilometers at least after its last contact with air traffic control may be an attempt to return back To the airport but why was there no radio contact and  In this day and age, how on earth, with all our technology, do we lose a plane on radar. when now according To the RMAF it flew another 500 kilometers

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2014, 08:45:47 PM »
That report has not yet been officially confirmed by the military and there seems to be some dispute about it.

Offline nick-mel

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2014, 09:20:15 PM »
That does kind of answer the second part of my original post if it is confirmed.  Image of the expanded western search grids did appear nearly 48 hours ago now and someone must have had some kind of data that wasn't public that made them start looking over there. Hence my FARS question and primary radar question.
Sounds like it ended up being primary radar.

If the sighting over Pulau Perak is correct, the plane may have just about overflown the island of Langkawi and its airport WWKL (unsure if it operates overnight) and would have just about been a straight in approach for the airfield (single runway 21/3). Airfield is plenty long enough to take a 777. (12,500ft)

https://www.google.com/maps/@6.3375714,99.7351753,14z    (WWKL)

https://www.google.com/maps/@5.6894327,98.9524904,14z   (Pulau Perak)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 09:24:59 PM by nick-mel »

Offline joeyb747

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2014, 10:34:44 PM »
That report has not yet been officially confirmed by the military and there seems to be some dispute about it.

100% true. This report has not been confirmed by anyone in direct connection to this aircraft, Malaysia Airlines, the Malaysian Military, or the Malaysian Government. Simply because it was broadcast on CNN or FOX News doesn't mean it is gospal. It just adds to the speculation pot, which at this point, is all anybody has got... No hard evidence of any kind. No probable, realistic scenario has been 100% ruled out, or 100% ruled in...

There are reports of witnesses on the ground seeing a low flying aircraft with bright lights in the early hours of the morning. These reports were made to local police departments and claimed the aircraft was flying at an altitude of about 3000 ft...Lets not forget to that witnesses on the ground rarely get the story right. They saw what THEY KNOW they saw... What they KNOW they saw and what actually happened are not always the same thing...
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 10:42:03 PM by joeyb747 »

Offline Buzkashi

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #55 on: March 12, 2014, 03:58:09 AM »
Bit of a lurker in the forums thus far and I really hate to leave my first post in such a tragic board, but I cannot resist


http://shanghaiist.com/2014/03/12/mh370_photos_cockpit-selfie_a_burge.php

Offline JohnN

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #56 on: March 12, 2014, 05:07:20 PM »
Latest update: CNN reports that Chinese satellite images show floating objects that may be part of MAS370. http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/12/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Offline xiangster

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #57 on: March 12, 2014, 10:10:11 PM »
Hopefully they have finally found the plane it has been far too long for the plane to be found more than 128 hours since it was missing.

Offline xiangster

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #58 on: March 12, 2014, 11:31:15 PM »
Looks like call sign MH370 is officially retired  this is from Malaysia Airlines 

Thursday, March 13, 11:10 AM MYT +0800 Malaysia Airlines MH370 Flight Incident - 17th Media Statement

As a mark of respect to the passengers and crew of MH370 on 8 March 2014, the MH370 and MH371 flight codes will be retired from the Malaysia Airlines’ Kuala Lumpur- Beijing-Kuala Lumpur route.

With effect from 14 March 2014, the new flight number to replace MH370 and MH371 will be:-

MH 318 – Kuala Lumpur - Beijing

MH 319 – Beijing - Kuala Lumpur

There are no changes to the frequency of our services and we will continue to operate double daily services to Beijing.

Our thoughts and prayers remain with the families of our colleagues and passengers of MH 370.

Offline AcmeAtc

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #59 on: March 13, 2014, 03:47:31 AM »
Crazy. Payne Stewart or James Bond?

Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours

http://tinyurl.com/kxtu3dt

Offline nick-mel

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #60 on: March 13, 2014, 05:43:13 AM »
Not sure if its more keystone cops or Yes Minister, but seems like the westerly radar contact that was MH370 then was denied 'but we're still looking that way anyway' is again on the cards.


In other developments, it seems to have surfaced via a 'US source' to the WSJ, that Rolls Royce/have 4 hours of engine performance data for the 777 after the transponder stopped.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/03/13/18/44/us-suspects-missing-plane-flew-on-for-hours-wsj-report

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579434653903086282?mod=WSJAsia_hpp_LEFTTopStories&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304914904579434653903086282.html%3Fmod%3DWSJAsia_hpp_LEFTTopStories

"As part of its maintenance agreements, Malaysia Airlines transmits its engine data live to Rolls-Royce for analysis. The system compiles data from inside the 777's two Trent 800 engines and transmits snapshots of performance, as well as the altitude and speed of the jet." (From the WSJ article)

That might explain why the Vietnamese gov't got a little upset and scaled down their S&R several hours earlier due to 'lack or information' from Malaysia as they were searching mainly around the loss of transponder area.

Whatever happens, their communications strategy both public and private doesn't seem to be working too well for them.

Also as a 3rd item, a New Zealander working on an oil rig claims to have spotted something in the sky about 500km NE of the last known location.

http://www.news.com.au/world/oil-rig-worker-says-he-saw-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-burst-into-flames/story-fndir2ev-1226853302184

Unfortunately it seems to be getting stranger as time goes on and not clearer.

Offline joeyb747

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #61 on: March 13, 2014, 07:11:09 AM »
I was skeptical about the floating debris the Chinese satalites captured...rather large...one piece was approximately 70ft x 70ft...very large too large to be from this airplane...

I was hopeful that it did turn out to be from this airplane, and the families could have closure sooner then later...

New idea from the investigators is that the airplane flew for four hours after the transponder was turned off based on automated messages sent to Rolls Royce from the power plants... If that is the case, the investigation is re-examining the previous therory that the aircraft made that turn and headed south-west. This aircraft could be lost in the vast Indian Ocean.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 12:49:02 PM by joeyb747 »

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2014, 10:16:10 AM »
Curiouser and curiouser. Looks like the pilot deliberately ghosted the aircraft and spiked it into the Indian Ocean so it would never be found.

But they will be able to do a time base analysis of the engine data burst uplinks and figure out which direction they were headed.

Offline xiangster

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2014, 10:38:11 AM »
It is now more than 180 hours since the MH370 Boeing 777 disappeared . The search for the Plane has been split between east and west coasts of Peninsular Malaysia and is about to ( So I hear) expand to the Indian Ocean from what I have gather the assets that are searching are ( Which is increasing by the Day) This could be the Biggest SAR Mission ever seen .  

Malaysia
11 x RMAF Planes
1 x Navy Chopper
5 x Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency Planes
1 x  Royal Malaysian Police Plane
15 x Navy Warships
13 x Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency Patrol Ships
1 x Rescue ship

Australia
2 x Royal Australian Air Force AP-3C Orion

New Zealand
1 x Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K Orion

US Navy 7th Fleet
1x P-3C Orion
4x Seahawk  
2 x Warships - USS Pickney, USS Kidd
1 x Support Ship -

People's Republic of China
8 x PLA Navy Warships
1 x Coast Guard Partol Vessel
3 x Coast Guard SAR vessels
2 x Navel Choppers
2 x Maritime Search Aircraft
At least 8 satellites

Singapore
2 x Republic of Singapore Air Force C-130 Hercules
1 x S-70B Seahawk
2 x Republic of Singapore Navy Warships
1 x Rescue Ship with Naval Divers

Kingdom of Thailand
1 x Maritime Search Aircraft - Unknown type
1 x Patrol ship
1 x Thai Chopper

Indonesia
1 x MPA Search Aircraft
5 x Navy Warship
2 x SAR ships

Philippines - unable to get number of ships and planes
India-  unable to get number of ships and planes but at least 2 satellites
Japan - unable to get number of ships and planes
Vietnam- unable to get number of ships and planes
Taiwan -unable to get number of ships and planes
Brunei -unable to get number of ships and planes
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 10:41:04 AM by xiangster »

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #64 on: March 13, 2014, 10:42:08 AM »
More info on the engine monitoring. The data IS relayed via satellite feed, doubtful the pilot knew or could have disabled.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2014/03/13/aircraft-engine-monitoring-how-it-works-and-how-it-could-help-malaysia-air-370-crash-investigtors/

Offline dave

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #65 on: March 13, 2014, 10:46:13 AM »
I also wonder about the veracity of that engine monitoring data.  Specifically, where is it timestamped?  On the ground or in the air?  I can't tell you how many "industrial" systems I've been called to work on that have unreliable time synchronization (or manual) time setting.

Offline xiangster

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #66 on: March 13, 2014, 10:49:08 AM »
Very true and We don't even know what  happen to the Pilots. I mean was the plane taken over ? Was it pilot error ? Or was it a total systems failure ?  only the black boxes can tell us .......    

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #67 on: March 13, 2014, 10:50:53 AM »
It's amazing what they can divine from fuzzy data when they really drill into it, and there's always the chance that NSA or other military satellites may have scooped up additional independent data. Adding to the kluster phuck is this report that there was NO engine data...

http://news.yahoo.com/malaysia-no-engine-data-plane-went-missing-111802306.html

Offline JohnN

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #68 on: March 13, 2014, 12:42:31 PM »
I think it's time for Malaysia to hand over the lead of the search to a country with more search experience. It's clear Malaysia has no clue what they are doing. One day they release one bit of information, then the next day they contradict what they just said. All of this contradiction is not making the search any easier.

Offline laylow

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #69 on: March 13, 2014, 02:49:33 PM »
Pentagon says 370 went down in the Indian Ocean.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-pentagon-3238713

That makes the search rather more difficult.

Offline blakepilot

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #70 on: March 13, 2014, 02:57:45 PM »
I've purposely avoided the speculation train as much as possible, but I don't think we're ever going to know a concrete answer in this case.

  • Based off the things we know, transponders don't turn themselves off.  If the radar return over Pulau Perak does indeed turn out to be the missing 777, it didn't end up flying that route on accident.
  • A complete electrical failure just doesn't happen either.  Not saying that it isn't possible, but there are so many redundant backups on a 777 - all the way down to a ram air turbine - it just makes it highly unlikely.  Even if it was a catastrophic electrical failure, the engines would still spin, and the ram air turbine would provide hydraulic pressure to the control surfaces.  The pilot then could have kept flying using the magnetic compass until he was over land and able to locate a suitable airport to land at.  He had plenty of fuel to find somewhere.
  • Uncontrolled decompression ala Payne Stewart is another theory, but this aircraft was over-water and flying on a programmed FMS.  It would have kept flying the route until the FMS was out of instructions.
  • Hijack is yet another theory, but it would have to be almost surgical to have absolutely no indication from either the front or back of the aircraft.  There are sat phones at crew stations.  The hijackers would have to have a very advanced knowledge of the systems on a 777, and flying in general, to be able to disable any and all reporting systems and weave it around ground radar range.
  • In-flight breakup seems unlikely because debris would have likely been spotted by now in the Gulf of Thailand.  Plenty of stuff on aircraft float.  The water currents and unremarkable weather recently would have aided in the recovery.
  • Insert any number of broad government conspiracy theories...

Personally, I think someone intentionally took this aircraft hours over the Indian Ocean until the fuel ran out.  Pilot suicide is something awful to think about, but I just don't see any other way an airliner like a 777 just goes completely off the reservation like that without someone that knows what they're doing.  Radar coverage in that part of the world is shoddy at best, so it wouldn't be hard to go poof in the night at the hands of someone that's familiar with where the coverage gaps are.  Pull the right circuit breakers, decompress the cabin so everyone is unconscious, and head for nowhere.  Even that sounds awfully wild, and nearly impossible with automated backups in place, though.

One thing I am sure of: the Malaysian government seems completely inept at manning an aviation investigation.  The number of releases and retractions they're making aren't making the search any easier.  They seem to have no clue about what they're doing.  NTSB should be running this investigation, but that would require the full and unmitigated cooperation of the Malaysian, Thai, and possibly Vietnamese governments.  I'm not saying it's impossible, but that would indicate the white flag being raised in front of the world.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 03:00:37 PM by blakepilot »

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #71 on: March 13, 2014, 04:21:23 PM »
I'm for the pilot suicide as well, especially since it has happened before. Flying at night, he could have changed course without the sleeping passengers noticing, flown out over the southern Indian Ocean and augered in before anybody knew what was happening or could do anything about it. Might as well be looking for Amelia Earhart while we're at it.

Offline w.pasman

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2014, 04:52:35 PM »
Maybe someone can explain me

If I look at this flight at flightradar24.com, I can see the plane flying its correct route much further on, and disappears only at 19:08 UTC. By then, it has by far passed over Vietnam and is about 100km southeast of Sanya.

Why is the news reporting the crash site somewhere northeast of Kota Bharu?

Is anybody looking for the plane where Flightradar indicates the last response?

Is flightradar wrong? Am I misunderstanding the way flightradar works? I thought it uses transponders in the plane?

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #73 on: March 13, 2014, 05:06:20 PM »
Where it is lacking ADS-B data from ground or satellite Flightradar estimates the location based upon planned flight path, which often happens over the oceans. Once the flight regains data link the position is updated, and if it never does the estimated plot may just stop after a certain time period.

Offline w.pasman

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Re: Malaysia Airlines reports ATC loses contact with MAS370, WMKK-ZBAA
« Reply #74 on: March 13, 2014, 05:55:47 PM »
Thanks! I also read their faq but it's not entirely clear to me. Do they keep using the latest received transponder signal for more than an hour before deciding the contact is lost ? And thus base the displayed path purely on the planned trajectory as indicated by the transponder?