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Author Topic: Lion Air 737-800 MAX Crashes Into Java Sea Shortly After Departure-No Survivors  (Read 1327 times)

Offline joeyb747

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"A Lionair Boeing 737-800 MAX, registration PK-LQP performing flight JT-610 from Jakarta to Pangkal Pinang (Indonesia) with 181 passengers and 7 crew, was climbing out of Jakarta when the aircraft reached a maximum altitude of about 5400 feet, then lost height, radar contact was lost about 35nm northeast of Jakarta over the Java Sea. Rescue services are on their way to the suspected crash site, first ships have reached the crash site and located oil slicks as well as debris from the aircraft including mobile phones and first body parts. Later the day 6 bodies were recovered. Authorities state there is no hope for survivors."

From:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4bf90724&opt=0
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 09:33:54 PM by joeyb747 »


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Offline joeyb747

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The airplane involved, PK-LQP, was a brand new Boeing 737-8MAX, CN43000, Delivered 08/13/18, powered by LEAP-1B engines.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/pk-lqp#1e5ff318
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Offline ORD Don

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Edward Sirait, president of the budget airline, told reporters that the plane had also encountered a technical problem on its previous flight that was subsequently resolved by engineers.  NBC

Offline joeyb747

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Edward Sirait, president of the budget airline, told reporters that the plane had also encountered a technical problem on its previous flight that was subsequently resolved by engineers.  NBC

Correct. From the AvHerald article:

"The airline reported the aircraft encountered a technical problem, the crew was about to return to Jakarta. There had also been a technical problem on the previous flight, this problem however was fixed (editorial note: the aircraft remained on the ground in Jakarta over night for 8 hours prior to the accident flight, there is a write up circulating in the Internet only claiming the aircraft had experienced unreliable airspeed and altitude on the previous flight, the captain's instruments were identified faulty, control was handed to the first officer and the flight continued to destination below RVSM airspace - we removed this write up repeatedly from our reader comment board because of its unverified nature and because it supposedly contains names of flight crew). The captain had accumulated 6,000 hours of total flight experience, the first officer 5,000 hours."
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 06:58:18 AM by joeyb747 »
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Offline joeyb747

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Sounds like the FDR has been recovered today. Hopefully, it will hold some answers...
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 07:10:38 AM by joeyb747 »
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Offline joeyb747

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They are looking at possibly faulty AOA sensors on ALL 737-800/-900 MAX Series aircraft.

An Emergency AD has been issued:

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgad.nsf/0/83ec7f95f3e5bfbd8625833e0070a070/$FILE/2018-23-51_Emergency.pdf

Below is from the updated AvHerald article:

"On Nov 7th 2018 Boeing issued an Operations Manual Bulletin (OMB) to all Boeing 737 MAX Operators stating that the investigation into the crash of PK-LQP found one of the Angle of Attack Sensors had provided incorrect readings, which could cause the aircraft's trim system to uncommandedly trim nose down in order to avoid a stall during manual flight. The OMB directs "operators to existing flight crew procedures to address circumstances where there is erroneous input from an AOA sensor." The OMB reiterates the Stabilizer Runaway non-normal checklist.

The flight Crew Operations Manual Bulletin TBC-19 reads:

The Indonesian National Transportation Safety Committee has indicated that Lion Air flight 610 experienced erroneous AOA data. Boeing would like to call attention to an AOA failure condition that can occur during manual flight only.

This bulletin directs flight crews to existing procedures to address this condition. In the event of erroneous AOA data, the pitch trim system can trim the stabilizer nose down in increments lasting up to 10 seconds. The nose down stabilizer trim movement can be stopped and reversed with the use of the electric stabilizer trim switches but may restart 5 seconds after the electric stabilizer trim switches are released. Repetitive cycles of uncommanded nose down stabilizer continue to occur unless the stabilizer trim system is deactivated through use of both STAB TRIM CUTOUT switches in accordance with the existing procedures in the Runaway Stabilizer NNC. It is possible for the stabilizer to reach the nose down limit unless the system inputs are counteracted completely by pilot trim inputs and both STAB TRIM CUTOUT switches are moved to CUTOUT.

Additionally, pilots are reminded that an erroneous AOA can cause some or all of the following indications and effects:

- Continuous or intermittent stick shaker on the affected side only.
- Minimum speed bar (red and black) on the affected side only.
- Increasing nose down control forces.
- Inability to engage autopilot.
- Automatic disengagement of autopilot.
- IAS DISAGREE alert.
- ALT DISAGREE alert.
- AOA DISAGREE alert (if the AOA indicator option is installed)
- FEEL DIFF PRESS light.


In the event an uncommanded nose down stabilizer trim is experienced on the 737 - 8 / - 9, in conjunction with one or more of the above indications or effects, do the Runaway Stabilizer NNC ensuring that the STAB TRIM CUTOUT switches are set to CUTOUT and stay in the CUTOUT position for the remainder of the flight."


From:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4bf90724&opt=0
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 06:37:55 AM by joeyb747 »
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Offline wiedehopf

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Quote
They are looking at possibly faulty AOA sensors on ALL 737-800/-900 MAX Series aircraft.

Not quite how i understand the reports. The problem is that the stall protection commands A LOT of nose down trim in case of a SINGLE AoA sensor failure.

A single sensor failure should not lead to such a dangerous flight input ESPECIALLY in manual flight.

Offline joeyb747

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Quote
They are looking at possibly faulty AOA sensors on ALL 737-800/-900 MAX Series aircraft.

Not quite how i understand the reports. The problem is that the stall protection commands A LOT of nose down trim in case of a SINGLE AoA sensor failure.

A single sensor failure should not lead to such a dangerous flight input ESPECIALLY in manual flight.

While I agree with you that a single sensor failure shouldn't lead to this, apparently it can...

From the AvHerald article:

"On Nov 7th 2018 Boeing issued an Operations Manual Bulletin (OMB) to all Boeing 737 MAX Operators stating that the investigation into the crash of PK-LQP found one of the Angle of Attack Sensors had provided incorrect readings, which could cause the aircraft's trim system to uncommandedly trim nose down in order to avoid a stall during manual flight. The OMB directs "operators to existing flight crew procedures to address circumstances where there is erroneous input from an AOA sensor." The OMB reiterates the Stabilizer Runaway non-normal checklist."

If it's not the sensor sending faulty data, it's how the system is interpreting it... Here's the EAD, the above link isn't working...

https://theaircurrent.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/B737-MAX-AD-1107.pdf
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 09:58:17 PM by joeyb747 »
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Offline ORD Don

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     https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/14/asia/lion-air-cockpit-voice-recorder-intl/index.html   


 " Lion Air's operational director has accused Boeing of withholding information from pilots in the manuals about the feature that automatically lowers the airplane's nose to
   prevent or exit a stall.
   Boeing chief executive Dennis Muilenburg told Fox Business Network in November that information was available as part of the training manual."

   It seems to me like Boeing should make it VERY CLEAR when a feature like this has been added/modified ?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 10:18:59 AM by ORD Don »