JFK's Shattered Wind Equipment

[Pilot3033]

In case you've been wondering why JFK has been giving winds as "estimated," it's because the high winds broke the equipment on the field, take a listen:

Tower explains it again to a QANTAS pilot, but it occurred right after the half-hour mark, so I'll grab it when the archive is posted.

[KBOITDog]

LOL Anybody else hear IBE6253 get cleared to land with gusts at 64? Thought it was very funny to hear the whisper of "Good luck", and "YEEEEE HAAAA!" Watching all the flights divert makes me think "Thank goodness I'm not going to the New York area today.

[ADDSwx]

The ASOS IFW (ice-free wind sensor) at Kennedy remains operational (see the METARs).  But since the FAA's wind measuring equipment (used for operational winds) failed in the high winds, air traffic control can only provide estimated wind data to pilots.  The capability exists for the ASOS to interface with the TDWR and provide the ASOS wind data to the TDWR for air traffic controller use.  The ASOS would transmit the ASOS-measured wind direction (magnetic) and wind speed updated once every 10 seconds to the TDWR, and this wind data would then be displayed at each controller position.  Air traffic control personnel would then be able to provide arriving and departing aircraft with real-time wind information measured by the ASOS, from the same wind sensor that measures and provides the wind information you see in the METARs.  I have no idea why the FAA spends more money and messes around with another separate wind system (which as one can see doesn't work very well) for operational use, when the ASOS can provide it reliably and accurately.  If they wish to maintain another wind sensor as a backup to the ASOS, I can understand that.  But to not utilize the capability to interface the ASOS with the TDWR to provide wind data to support FAA operations just doesn't make a lot of sense.       

[Lynch_Christopher]

Not to stray off topic a little bit, but has anyone been hearing that clicking sound on the ground frequency like someone is keying up on the mic and then releasing it.

[Pilot3033]

ADD,
I've only been listening to the Tower feed and using their explanation so I'm not sure which "wind sensor" fell, I imagine that if they had the option to use the surface observation over the NOAA provided information or if they thought it was more reliable, they would use it. Frankly, I haven't looked into how they're getting NOAA reports, if that instrumentation is different from what is provided to the METAR or if it is one and the same. Either way, it doesn't matter much with wind gusts up to 50 or 60 knots, +/-20 to 30 on the climbeout/approach and moderate to severe turbulence, not many are going to get out anyway.

[stoat]

I have no idea why the FAA spends more money and messes around with another separate wind system (which as one can see doesn't work very well) for operational use, when the ASOS can provide it reliably and accurately.  If they wish to maintain another wind sensor as a backup to the ASOS, I can understand that.  But to not utilize the capability to interface the ASOS with the TDWR to provide wind data to support FAA operations just doesn't make a lot of sense.      

Runways are individually instrumented to give the most accurate wind reading at the approach end of the runway in use.  It seems to me the more likely scenario regarding access to the ASOS wind data is there was a procedure in place (other than calling the ASOS), but the controllers weren't aware of it.  

I'm not sure what the FAA uses, but failing in 64KTs seems pretty crummy.  Our TMQ-53 that wasn't bolted down didn't blow over til we got 88!

(unrelated, is this the record for lurk time?)

[sykocus]

I'm not sure what the FAA uses, but failing in 64KTs seems pretty crummy.  Our TMQ-53 that wasn't bolted down didn't blow over til we got 88!

In hurricanes and typhoons much of the damage doesn't just come from the wind by itself rather from the impact of lose objects blown by the wind. I have no idea what happened to the wind sensors at JFK, but it's very possible something was blown into them. The controllers up in the tower wouldn't necessarily know exactly what happened nor would they be necessarily explaining exactly what happened had they known. The only thing that was important was conveying that the wind as best they could and informing pilots that the information they were giving wasn't as accurate as normal.

[allynroe]

The specs we have for our system (non-federal) state that the wind speed sensor should operate to at least 85 knots with a 5% accuracy (2% under 40 knots).  I wonder if they have ultrasonic sensors or the old cup style? 

[Pilot3033]

The specs we have for our system (non-federal) state that the wind speed sensor should operate to at least 85 knots with a 5% accuracy (2% under 40 knots).  I wonder if they have ultrasonic sensors or the old cup style? 

If the equipment they relied on was affixed to the tower (which I assume it was), then I imagine it wasn't the device that failed, rather it was the means to which it was attached to the tower that did.

[phil-s]

Something doesn't add up here. I have a RMYoung research-grade prop-type anemometer/wind vane mounted on a standard Campbell tower, plenty accurate enough for aviation purposes.   All the components are certified wind-tunnel tested to 130 MPH, and are reported to have survived considerably worse on occasion. The tower is through-bolted to the 6" thick poured-concrete roof with 1/2" stainless steel hardware. Total cost is about $2k (sensor, tower, mounting hardware). When the next hurricane comes through and the sensor finally fails it will almost certainly be due to airborne debris, not wind. In any case, if I can do it for $2k I'm curious why a facility like KJFK doesn't have multiple backups.     

[ADDSwx]

The ASOS ice-free wind sensor (which is an ultrasonic wind sensor with no moving parts) did not fail during the high wind event at JFK (this is according to the METARs and messages from the NWS WFO, which noted the peak wind gust measured by the ASOS at JFK of 75 miles per hour (65 knots)).  The ASOS ice-free wind sensor meets all NWS and FAA requirements for reporting range, accuracy, and resolution, and it performed to specifications.  I do not know the specifics of the ASOS ice-free wind sensor location at JFK.  Typically the sensor is sited at the touchdown zone of the primary instrument runway or, if that location is found to be unsuitable, at a centerfield location.