Author Topic: IFR flight to KNEW - VFR flight to M16- Video  (Read 14388 times)

Offline beechsundowner

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
    • Flights
IFR flight to KNEW - VFR flight to M16- Video
« on: January 24, 2009, 10:57:15 AM »
Two videos...

First video to New Orleans Lake Front airport KNEW with ATC Communications



Video includes me picking up an IFR clearance in the air, making ATC aware of my presence, pretty healthy Xwind on landing and progressive taxi instructions.  Awesome ATC folks at KNEW, patience of Job with a bumbling pilot like myself.  I find ground ops more intimidating then the flight itself!  Return trip will be uploaded in a separate video.  An awesome approach over Lake Pontchartran.  Just don't "come up short!"

Second video flight on January 21'st to a nearby airport Raymond MS M16 with ATC communications.



Video includes one of my more not so graceful takeoffs.  I will blame the weather, surely couldn't have been the pilot LOL  Not often I get to "light up the field" so video includes Pilot Control Lights (PCL) activation (small things entertain me!), night takeoff into a "black hole" and landing back at KMBO.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 11:03:15 AM by beechsundowner »



Offline beechsundowner

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
    • Flights
Re: IFR flight to KNEW - VFR flight to M16- Video
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2009, 03:39:45 PM »
My return flight.

Lots of lessons learned for me on this flight.  Video covers from talking to Clearance Delivery to IFR cancellation.  Also has my progressive taxi instructions.



I operate in the "land of direct" and usually get questioned if I file anything different.  Not the same in a busy airspace like New Orleans.

I thought (incorrectly) that if it was severe clear that GPS direct would work, but as I found out particularly on this flight, DP is the norm no matter what the weather conditions are.   

On this flight, I should have put NO DP.  While this won't get me GPS direct, it will save some radio work and communicate to ATC what I don't have.

Most importantly, for me, when I am unsure, as you will see in the video, I'd much rather ask and sound dumb on the radio then do something dumb on the ground or in the air when I am clueless myself or receive an unclear clearance..

Offline keith

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
    • KS Flight Log
Re: IFR flight to KNEW - VFR flight to M16- Video
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2009, 12:08:53 PM »
The initial clnc was radar vectors to a point defined by a radial and DME, then to a VOR, another VOR (I think), then direct.

I didn't hear a DP issued by clnc delivery. If you'd put 'NO DP' in the remarks, your clnc would've been identical.

What was it about the clnc that was tripping you up?


Offline beechsundowner

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
    • Flights
Re: IFR flight to KNEW - VFR flight to M16- Video
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2009, 12:30:09 PM »
The initial clnc was radar vectors to a point defined by a radial and DME, then to a VOR, another VOR (I think), then direct.

I didn't hear a DP issued by clnc delivery. If you'd put 'NO DP' in the remarks, your clnc would've been identical.

What was it about the clnc that was tripping you up?



Couple of things tripped me up Keith.

First I had filed GPS direct to KMBO so I expected vectors, but not to MCB.  I didn't think to put no dp only because of the weather conditions being severe clear.  Yes I am a real NOOB when it comes to busy airspace!

Second was the reference to Harvey which made me think that was a reference to a DP.

I am not familiar with the VOR fixes around KNEW so at that given moment, Harvey sounded like a departure procedure.  I was familiar with the McComb reference in the clearance.

I frantically pulled out the IFR enroute map and couldn't find Harvey so.... I read back what I understood with the expectations my read back would be "incorrect".  You should have seen the look on my face when he said readback correct.

Offline keith

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
    • KS Flight Log
Re: IFR flight to KNEW - VFR flight to M16- Video
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2009, 02:57:59 PM »
Gotcha.  If it helps, a DP will contain a revision number, such as the "Harvey One Departure"  (if such a thing existed, of course).  Since the controller didn't include the word 'departure' or a revision number, it was not a DP, it was just normal routing.

I wouldn't count on the weather affecting your ability to get direct routing. I'm sure that controller workload, current traffic, airspace complexity and inter-facility Letters of Agreement play more of a role in that.

When in doubt, don't be afraid to say, "I'm sorry, that routing caught me off guard, can you say again slowly?"

I too, am shocked that he said "readback correct" since your version was different to his! :)

I recall getting an unexpected SID during my IFR training out of an airport that I'd never visited. The controller issues the clnc containing the SID...I read it back, open up the chart book, and was disappointed to see that is was "runway hdg, vectors..."  Yah....LOTS of value-add from that one ;)

Do not fear the DP! What would you rather have, a nice, pretty chart to follow out of a field...or a series of instructions that closely mimics the DP, without the benefit of referring to the pictorial representation?

The only time I would strongly consider filing NO DP is if you know that you are unable to comply with the minimum climb gradient stipulated by all the DP's from a given field.  If that happens, consider drinking half of the beer you were carrying, THEN fly :)

Offline beechsundowner

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
    • Flights
Re: IFR flight to KNEW - VFR flight to M16- Video
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2009, 03:20:25 PM »
When in doubt, don't be afraid to say, "I'm sorry, that routing caught me off guard, can you say again slowly?"

Good tip, especially for the next time.  I was just tongue tied in the heat of the moment.  :-D

Do not fear the DP! What would you rather have, a nice, pretty chart to follow out of a field...or a series of instructions that closely mimics the DP, without the benefit of referring to the pictorial representation?

Garmin 430 does make a snap out of any published routings, but in some ways I go both ways.  I can follow vectors real easy, and this puts the "responsibility" on ATC for my navigation, but on the other hand, I'd get out of the busy airspace faster using the DP.  The more transparent in the system I can be, the better whether it be take heading instructions or self navigate. 

, consider drinking half of the beer you were carrying, THEN fly :)

Whoa!  When did you peek in my Cargo section???  :-o 

I like your way of bringing weight forward CG  :-D  :-D 

Offline tazcat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: IFR flight to KNEW - VFR flight to M16- Video
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2009, 01:23:04 AM »
As a fellow pilot I enjoyed you 2 videos and look forward to more............I fly out of KLNS (class D).

Bruce

Offline jb8622

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: IFR flight to KNEW - VFR flight to M16- Video
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2009, 03:40:01 PM »
For all the readers out there curious about the clearance and why it was given the way it was...

The clearance was HRV358037 MCB MBO. The radial and DME fix is given for all northbound departures to keep them away from arrivals inbound on the RYTHM3 arrival in the event of a radar outage.

However, 99.9% of the time the departure controller with get approval from Houston Center to just send you direct MCB, or MBO if you request it.

Hope this helps!

Jon

Offline beechsundowner

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
    • Flights
Re: IFR flight to KNEW - VFR flight to M16- Video
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2009, 05:21:33 PM »

However, 99.9% of the time the departure controller with get approval from Houston Center to just send you direct MCB, or MBO if you request it.


Hey Jon,

Thanks for clarifying the clearance.   8-)

Maybe you can answer this.  On climb out, after my initial contact with New Orleans approach, I requested direct KMBO.  As you can see in the video, I was approved direct KMBO. 

About 10 minutes later, a different approach controller said, 43L, direct MCB.  I didn't question it, but started direct MCB and requested direct KMBO. 

Should I have queried the second controller on "why" or alert him I was cleared direct KMBO?  Frequency was busy, so I handled it with my request to KMBO and just go with the flow remaining "transparent" 

My thought was that maybe the first controller didn't update my data with my new clearance direct to KMBO?

Offline jb8622

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: IFR flight to KNEW - VFR flight to M16- Video
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2009, 08:13:45 PM »
If you remember that day, we were landing and departing to the south. I can't remember if New Orleans North & South radar was split or combined, but if it was split, perhaps the South controller got approval from Houston Center to send you direct MBO, but that information was never passed on to the North controller. It wouldn't make sense for South to be doing that, but I guess it's a possibility. Another may be if it was combined up, perhaps a change in controllers occurred, and the fact that you were approved direct MBO was never passed along in the relief briefing. The controller observed you not flying direct MCB and corrected it. I guess the best thing to do in a situation like that is on a frequency change, inform the next controller you are direct MBO. Or at least that's what I would do. But all of this is just pure speculation... who knows what really happened.

Jon

Offline beechsundowner

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
    • Flights
Re: IFR flight to KNEW - VFR flight to M16- Video
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2009, 08:34:42 PM »
If you remember that day, we were landing and departing to the south. I can't remember if New Orleans North & South radar was split or combined, but if it was split, perhaps the South controller got approval from Houston Center to send you direct MBO, but that information was never passed on to the North controller. Jon

I really think the above is what happened mainly because I didn't hear the works "43L amendment to your clearance, ready to copy"  It was definitely a different controller.

Air was sooo smooth and I was enjoying the ride it really was no biggie.

As I said to Keith, taking vectors does make the workload a lot easier on me for navigation  :-D  I just monitor to be sure they are not vectoring me to another airport.

Good tip to keep on my tool kit in advising the controller I was previously approved direct.  Doesn't take that much air time, but again, in that heat of the moment, didn't think fast on my feet (or my wings), figure to comply and go with the flow.

Heck, I looked at it as a good time to learn more about my 430 and reprogramming it using the flight plan feature.  In the land of the direct, D is all I need.  This forces me to use the other buttons and powerful features on the durn thing!

If you go to http://www4.passur.com/msy.html put in 01/23/2009 for the date 13:40 for the time, zoom out to 20 miles, click normal speed and start,   30 seconds later, you will see me pop up on radar over the I 10 interstate sign departing KNEW. (those not familiar with New Orleans, lower right corner of the graphic)

I thought this was pretty kewl myself!

Offline beechsundowner

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
    • Flights
Re: IFR flight to KNEW - VFR flight to M16- Video
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2009, 04:33:15 PM »
KNEW ATC timelapse



Images captured from http://www4.passur.com/msy.html

200 images stitched together using Windows Movie Maker.  Departing KNEW, 18 minutes flight time compressed to 40 seconds.  I am the "slow" red plane.  :-D