LiveATC Discussion Forums
Air Traffic Monitoring => Aviation Audio Clips => Topic started by: Palal on April 04, 2011, 11:45:00 AM
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First smoke in the cockpit and then loss of all instruments
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Here's Avherald http://www.avherald.com/h?article=43a6bc08&opt=0
(http://avherald.com/img/ual_a320_new_orleans_110404_1.jpg)
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holy crap... the bells going off in the cockpit wow
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AWESOME job by crew, controllers, and airport staff!
Nice clip Palal!
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Eeep!
Favorite part (other than happy ending) "The crap is off the runway!"
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Very nice catch. I heard part of this on WCBS880AM today and they did credit LiveATC.net , which was nice.
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Eeep!
Favorite part (other than happy ending) "The crap is off the runway!"
Craft..."...craft is off the runway"... :lol: :wink: I think "air" was cut off...I think he meant to say "Aircraft is off the runway." After landing on runway 19, the aircraft "blew a tyre, but went left off the runway, stopped just off the paved surface with all gear north of the intersection with runway 10/28..." ...from the AvHerald article. Directly after that comment he comments again about runway 10 being operational.
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Agreed - great job by ATC and the crew. Seriously, how often does an airliner get no-gyro vectors? Training pays off, on both the ATC end and the pilot end.
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7000 foot runway (19) and 32k pounds fuel- blew tires on landing. anyone know gross landing weight of the airbus A320? aircraft? and regardless great decision to not worry about it. Better a few tires or landing struts versus circling to dump fuel and losing everything (swissair 111).
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anyone know gross landing weight of the airbus A320? aircraft?
Max landing weight for the A320 is 142,200 lbs.
http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamilies/passengeraircraft/a320family/a320/specifications/
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ABC news video:
http://news.yahoo.com/video/politics-15749652/jet-makes-blind-landing-in-new-orleans-24793997
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Youtube video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQEsc7GinUg&feature=player_embedded
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Is it me or did the ABC video cut the transmissions into something totally not chronological.
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I think they used a little "artistic" editing....
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Preliminary report from the NTSB: http://www3.ntsb.gov/Pressrel/2011/110407.html (http://www3.ntsb.gov/Pressrel/2011/110407.html)
...which returned to the airport on April 4, 2011, in New Orleans, shortly after take-off due to automated warnings of smoke in the equipment bay....
...After documenting the condition of the equipment in the electronics bay, investigators applied limited electrical power to various systems on the airplane. At this time, the preliminary examination has not revealed any signs of burning, indications of smoke or other anomalous system findings.
The NTSB operations group completed interviews of the flight crew yesterday. The crew indicated that, at about 4000 feet, the airplane's electronic centralized aircraft monitoring (ECAM) system provided an autothrottle-related message, then an avionics smoke warning message, accompanied by instructions to land. Despite receiving this message, neither crew member recalled smelling smoke or fumes during the flight.
False alarm? :?
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Latest information from local newspaper and conversation with a United/Continental mechanic supervisor was that there was no actual fire, only an "avionics smoke warning message". The flight crew began a shutdown of all non-essential equipment per emergency procedures. Also the on-board computers on the A320 automatically shut down some avionics and control functions which resulted in loss of control and blown tires on landing(no antiskid braking).
My source at KMSY says he does not like Airbus Fly By Wire because of just this scenario. In an emergency, or indication of an emergency, the computer(s) shut down systems without pilot input and the pilot has no instant override.
This was not as serious as it sounded, but was still no piece of cake, with systems shut down, IFR to marginal VFR, overweight landing, short runway and loss of steering control. Also runway 19 ends just short of a major US highway(61) which was loaded with traffic at that hour. A runway overrun would have been a major disaster.
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"On Apr 7th the NTSB said the crew recalled receiving an auto-throttle related ECAM message while climbing through 4000 feet shortly followed by an avionics smoke warning with the instruction to land. Despite this message neither crew recalled smelling smoke or fumes during the flight. The captain worked the electronic checklist for the avionics smoke warning, which included shutting down some of the electrical systems. The first officer's display screens went blank, the ECAM messages disappeared, the cockpit to cabin intercom stopped functioning and the air driven generator (RAT) deployed. The captain took control of the aircraft and managed the radios while the first officer opened the cockpit door to advise flight attendants. The crew requested runway 10 but was advised runway 10 was unavailable due to construction vehicles on the runway. The captain was able to use airspeed, altimeter and attitude information during the return to the airport and ordered an evacuation after landing. Cabin crew did not smell smoke or fumes nor did they observe haze, but noticed the cabin lights were turned off and the intercom ceased functioning. Cockpit Voice and Flight Data recorders were downloaded, they both stopped recording prior to landing."
From the updated AvHerald article:
http://www.avherald.com/h?article=43a6bc08&opt=0
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The reason they blew two tires with (partially) electronics turned off is because the brakes produces (very) low breaking action and the spoilers where only two elements per wing.
In this scenario this is a collateral positive way to help slowing down with near to no breaks.
I think the reason for this (very) hard landing lies in the fact the checklist says they have to switch some systems off, which includes the secondary system (yaw damper function for sidestick) that remains active until MDA (minimum descent altitude) and DH (decision height) below these minimus the sec is inop when electronics are switched off resulting in a sort of loss of controll together with only 1 stage of flaps resulting in blown tires. (This airplane does not want to stop by itself)
What I would do in a real emergency with total loss of instruments is at final turn the #2 generator back on, check speed, turn it back off and at very short final turn it back on again. The heck with the wires (if they burn though) and then land...