Author Topic: this pilot sounds really tired .  (Read 17259 times)

Offline Аэрофлот Jr.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 270
    • Facebook
this pilot sounds really tired .
« on: November 10, 2008, 08:20:24 PM »
really tired american eagle pilot . at KJFK


sincerely, Rae

Offline englishpilot

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2008, 08:37:54 PM »
I agree, sounds like he's had enough for a day!
I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe.

Offline Аэрофлот Jr.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 270
    • Facebook
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2008, 11:55:21 PM »
I agree, sounds like he's had enough for a day!

he definitely had enoughhh   it almost sounds like 'i wanna go homeee'
sincerely, Rae

Offline glencar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2008, 12:03:45 AM »
He sounds unprofessional. I understand some days are frustrating, especially with long delays due to airline scheduling & weather but man up!

Offline Аэрофлот Jr.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 270
    • Facebook
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2008, 12:23:04 AM »
He sounds unprofessional. I understand some days are frustrating, especially with long delays due to airline scheduling & weather but man up!

yea it just sounded toooo much down   .  he need sum bos johns lessons about 'loving and enjoying your jobs'  :-)
sincerely, Rae

Offline gonzo5252

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2008, 10:45:45 PM »
He sounds unprofessional. I understand some days are frustrating, especially with long delays due to airline scheduling & weather but man up!

yea it just sounded toooo much down   .  he need sum bos johns lessons about 'loving and enjoying your jobs'  :-)

Nice, coming from two guys who have never had a 16hr day in the Northeast. That guy sounds great compared to me after a long day.

Offline Switch Monkey

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2008, 12:42:37 AM »
He sounds unprofessional. I understand some days are frustrating, especially with long delays due to airline scheduling & weather but man up!

yea it just sounded toooo much down   .  he need sum bos johns lessons about 'loving and enjoying your jobs'  :-)

Nice, coming from two guys who have never had a 16hr day in the Northeast. That guy sounds great compared to me after a long day.
WORD!

Offline glencar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2008, 05:08:17 PM »
16 hours? Is that legal??

Offline gonzo5252

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2008, 01:21:12 AM »
Quote from: glencar link=topic=5199.msg30438 it ha#msg30438 date=1d226786897
16 hours? Isn that legal??

Yes, and it happens more then people think.

Offline PHL Approach

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 743
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2008, 01:51:21 AM »
16 hours? Is that legal??

The wonders of Screw Scheduling.. I mean Crew Scheduling. 16 hours duty time - the industry milks the &#^$ out of their crews.

Offline Scrapper

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2008, 03:55:47 PM »
OK. I'm going to bite... how is 16 hours legal? please explain how it happens more often than people realize...

Offline gonzo5252

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2008, 07:54:47 PM »
OK. I'm going to bite... how is 16 hours legal? please explain how it happens more often than people realize...

It is legal because the FAA makes it legal. The sad thing is the 16 hours is show time to off time. Add in the time before show time and the time on the way to the hotel and you are looking at almost a 18 hour day for the flight crews.

Offline Scrapper

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2008, 09:43:57 PM »
Man that is absolutely ridiculous... Is that the max? 16 hrs?

Offline Jason

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1260
  • CFI/CFII
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2008, 01:16:20 PM »
I'm not the 121 expert, but do know the 135 regs inside and out. Technically max crew duty is 14 hours, but there are various exceptions (unscheduled weather and ATC delays, etc) that allow 14 hours to be exceeded. Maximum flight time varies by scheduled/un-scheduled operations and how many pilots make up the flight crew. At one point a few years ago, there was talk about decreasing max crew duty due to the findings of various safety studies, but nothing has ever happened really. It's my belief that fatigue is one of the worst physiological human factors in aviation. Often, it's deadly.

Offline cessna157

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 708
    • facebook
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2008, 07:51:59 PM »
I guess that's my cue to chime in.

Yes, unfortunately, we can legally (by the FARs) go up to 16 hours of duty in one day.  And we can legally (by the FARs) fly 6 days in a row without a day off.  But it is much more complex than that.

But, in most cases, the 121 carrier's crew rulesare more restrictive than the FARs, just to prevent breaking the FARs.  At my company, we cannot go more than 15:30 in a day.

The rest requirements are where it gets fairly complex.  They are all hinged around how many hours you fly in a constantly moving 24 hour period.  As a 121 pilot, you are required to get at least 9, 10, or 11 hours of rest (rest being defined as not on duty), but that can be reduced to either 8 or 9 hours, depending on how much you fly in the rolling 24 hours.  But if you do not get the required rest and are on the reduced rest, the next day you must receive a longer rest period (10, 11, or 12 hours) within 24 hours of beginning the rest period the day before, all within the 24 hour rolling day.

Yes, that last paragraph is confusing and complex.  Unfortunately, flying in the 121 world, there's more to know than just how to fly and how the plane works.
CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent

Offline KBOITDog

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Oshkosh '08
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2008, 07:54:40 PM »
Do any of you think that the long days lead to this?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27808624/
Tony

Offline Glass-Cockpit.org

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • Our G1000 Interface project for MS Flight Simulator
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2008, 07:58:42 PM »
... now that gives you something to think about the next time you take a late afternoon flight!

Pete
WWW.Glass-Cockpit.org

http://www.glass-cockpit.org/blog/
Fly Safe,
Pete

Offline Аэрофлот Jr.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 270
    • Facebook
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2008, 07:59:56 PM »
I guess that's my cue to chime in.

Yes, unfortunately, we can legally (by the FARs) go up to 16 hours of duty in one day.  And we can legally (by the FARs) fly 6 days in a row without a day off.  But it is much more complex than that.

But, in most cases, the 121 carrier's crew rulesare more restrictive than the FARs, just to prevent breaking the FARs.  At my company, we cannot go more than 15:30 in a day.

The rest requirements are where it gets fairly complex.  They are all hinged around how many hours you fly in a constantly moving 24 hour period.  As a 121 pilot, you are required to get at least 9, 10, or 11 hours of rest (rest being defined as not on duty), but that can be reduced to either 8 or 9 hours, depending on how much you fly in the rolling 24 hours.  But if you do not get the required rest and are on the reduced rest, the next day you must receive a longer rest period (10, 11, or 12 hours) within 24 hours of beginning the rest period the day before, all within the 24 hour rolling day.

Yes, that last paragraph is confusing and complex.  Unfortunately, flying in the 121 world, there's more to know than just how to fly and how the plane works.

very nice information . thanks
sincerely, Rae

Offline snipper_cr

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2008, 08:03:29 PM »
Playing the devils advocate, maybe there was another reason the pilot sounded so tired. One time I went for a checkride and thought I failed so I was quite disheartened and might have sounded like that. Also, it sort of sounds like he has something in his mouth, maybe recent dental work causing pain? Or maybe he got chewed out by his CA for doing something.

Or maybe working 16 hour days, who knows.
The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

Offline Аэрофлот Jr.

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 270
    • Facebook
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2008, 08:04:29 PM »
Do any of you think that the long days lead to this?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27808624/

wow .  i wonder how hard he works past several days before that incident .  
sincerely, Rae

Offline jportzer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2008, 12:42:19 AM »
Do any of you think that the long days lead to this?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27808624/

Wow, that article was hard to read - silly journalists.  Here's the real scoop for those interested, from the AAIU in Ireland:  http://www.aaiu.ie/upload/general/11139-0.pdf

Offline KBOITDog

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Oshkosh '08
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2008, 05:48:40 PM »
That's a lot better... thanks.  8-)
Tony

Offline Switch Monkey

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
Re: this pilot sounds really tired .
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2008, 08:33:44 PM »
16 hr duty day is legal bar the FAR's. With no less than 8 hr of rest. Now the crappy part, rest starts 15 minutes after the chocks go in the wheels and end at show time of the next scheduled flight. So your crew gets 8 hrs to: Travel to hotel 20-40 mins, eat(mabey), prepare for sleep, sleep wake ,up and get ready, eat(mabey) travel to airport 20- 40 mins, go through TAS hell and walk to plane! 8 HRS REST DOES NOT EQUAL 8 HRS SLEEP!!!!   :x :x