Author Topic: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error  (Read 16844 times)

Offline derekjackson

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Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« on: January 10, 2012, 09:37:32 AM »
For details please see
http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4490d65e&opt=0

Non-relevant transmissions edited out.



Offline aevins

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2012, 10:21:04 AM »
Hmm that's an interesting one. In the original recording was there a gap between the time he cleared the Learjet for takeoff and when he issued to the runway crossing instruction to Southwest?

Offline derekjackson

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2012, 10:32:34 AM »
Hmm that's an interesting one. In the original recording was there a gap between the time he cleared the Learjet for takeoff and when he issued to the runway crossing instruction to Southwest?

No gap at all in the original recording, one instruction literally followed the other.

Offline notaperfectpilot

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2012, 12:37:26 PM »
Sort of sounded like the tower controller didn't want to admit that he was wrong by the way that he cut the crew off as they were asking for the tower phone number...

It is interesting how he cleared the guy for takeoff and then turned around and cleared the crew to taxi across the runway..doesn't make sense  :?

Offline derekjackson

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2012, 12:49:08 PM »
The controller's curt replies to the Southwest crew might have to do with denial or anger/guilt but at the same time it sounded like he had a lot on his plate with the airport traffic and needed to keep on top of things until he was relieved (which happened just a few minutes later).

Offline notaperfectpilot

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2012, 12:52:06 PM »
The controller's curt replies to the Southwest crew might have to do with denial or anger/guilt but at the same time it sounded like he had a lot on his plate with the airport traffic and needed to keep on top of things until he was relieved (which happened just a few minutes later).

True, one thing that the recording does not show is how much traffic he was handling at the time.

Offline flyflyfly

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2012, 04:58:02 PM »
Uh, that's a really unusual one. Thanks for finding this one!

Still couldn't believe the instructions were in real-time, so also went back to the archive. Indeed they were... Full recording is the KMDW Tower 1500Z archive (incident is at minute 7):
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kmdw/KMDW-Twr-Dec-01-2011-1500Z.mp3

Pretty busy period for the controller - but of course, it shouldn't happen anyway.

Offline notaperfectpilot

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Offline StuSEL

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2012, 10:28:16 PM »
One thing the NTSB will certainly have to look into is why the ASDE-X (airport surface detection equipment) alert didn't go off.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 02:03:11 AM by StuSEL »
CFII

Offline rross3

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2012, 04:23:40 PM »
I'm not blaming the pilot, but if it was real time, then they definitely have a lack of situational awareness...like most crews. Especially if they were on the same frequency.

Offline derekjackson

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2012, 05:20:00 PM »
I'm not blaming the pilot, but if it was real time, then they definitely have a lack of situational awareness...like most crews. Especially if they were on the same frequency.

Yes, the instructions to the Southwest crew and the Learjet followed one another with no delay in between so that part was real time. I suppose the fact that the Southwest crew never caught the takeoff clearance was lack of situational awareness but on the other hand they may have just been listening to their callsign while not paying attention to anything else on the same frequency (there is only one tower frequency for midway). Not being a pilot nor do I know any, I don't know how carefully most flight crews listen for things not meant for them.

Offline rduatc

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2012, 07:07:19 PM »
why would the controller have a discussion on the frequency for the world to hear about a possible mistake, call on the phone when you get back the terminal and talk about it.

Offline robonli

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2012, 12:06:31 PM »
I think the MDW Tower phone number should be removed from this clip.

Otherwise, thanks for posting it!

-RM

Offline derekjackson

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2012, 06:24:47 PM »
Why? All the phone numbers are listed here
http://directory.faa.gov/appspub/National/EmployeeDirectory/FAADIR.nsf/%28ConverttoList%29?OpenAgent&7/AOA-001/AJO-0/AJN-0/AJT-0/AJT-C/AJT-CC/TCC-MDW&ZV=I11

also, it will still be part of the archived feeds until they are removed after a few more weeks...

Offline domin752

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2012, 12:31:58 AM »
I'm not blaming the pilot, but if it was real time, then they definitely have a lack of situational awareness...like most crews. Especially if they were on the same frequency.

The Southwest crew broke the chain of errors that eventually leads to an accident by stopping short of the departing aircraft. I'm not sure if your comment "like most crews" means that us pilots are generally unaware of our surroundings during taxiing but if that is what you mean, it's an extremely ignorant and condescending thing to say.
JD

Offline Phlux

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2012, 09:09:30 AM »
I’m just curious, if an investigation determines that a controller is at fault in a situation like this what severity of disciplinary action can he/she usually expect?  Reprimand, suspension, termination?
Charlotte Ground - "Cactus 1441, hold short of mike and give way to the RJ..."

US Airways 1441 - "We have priority here, this same thing happened last time..."

Charlotte Ground - "You have priority when I give it to you, now hold short Cactus 1441..

Offline mk

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2012, 09:49:56 AM »
It depends: Has the controller been involved in a chain of incidents of similarity? Was the local controller in training? 
Most likely a few computer based instruction courses and a detailed conversation with the QA department will be the outcome of the FAAs investigation.  NTSB decides what went wrong and how to fix it...FAA hands out punishmemt, re-training, etc.

Offline cessna157

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2012, 11:55:04 AM »
I'm not blaming the pilot, but if it was real time, then they definitely have a lack of situational awareness...like most crews. Especially if they were on the same frequency.

I'm not real sure what this is supposed to mean.  It seems to me that they had a great situational awareness, as they caught the mistake and avoided a potential disaster. 

Please explain why you think they had a lack of situational awareness.  And also please explain the "like most crews" addition.  I'm curious as to your arguement there.
CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent

Offline notaperfectpilot

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2012, 07:18:00 AM »
The NTSB has released their factual report.

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4490d65e/0000&opt=0

The controller said, he was convinced he had cleared the 737 to hold short of runway 31R until he heard the tapes that confirmed he had cleared the 737 to cross runway 31R. The controller could not explain this action.

In reference to prior queries, this statement answers all...

Offline derekjackson

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Re: Runway Incursion @ MDW, ATC error
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2012, 11:14:56 AM »
This line is also telling:

"The NTSB released their factual report stating that a VIP arrival was planned later the day, which would effectively shut down the airport and thus put a lot of pressure onto the tower to get as many departures and arrivals through as possible."

When you are under pressure in this industry, mistakes are more likely to happen as history has shown us.