LiveATC Discussion Forums
Air Traffic Monitoring => Aviation Audio Clips => Topic started by: Greg01 on December 08, 2006, 04:46:56 PM
-
We don't have a ramp control at BUF, i always wondered where the ramp controller is located. Are they in the tower with ground?
Greg
-
BUF probably doesn't have a ramp control due to traffic constraints.
-
We don't have a ramp control because we don't have the traffic to necessitate one. However, at an airport like Philly or Kennedy, where is the ramp controller located?
Greg
-
In a Tower above the ramp they have jurisdiction over.
In my first post, I misunderstood the question. ^^ Thats how most airports that are airline hubs, focus cities, bases are setup .
-
Yeah, BUF isn't even close to being a hub or major city! ;)
that makes sense.
Thanks,
Greg
-
Keep in mind regarding ramp control....they are NOT air traffic controllers.
In most cases they are airline personnel who work for the major carrier at the airport or terminal. They are not subject to the same regulations as air traffic controllers and in some cases are instructed NOT to use ATC phraseology. They have direct shout-lines to the Ground positions in the control tower and they coordinate with ATC on a regular basis. They even have Letters of Agreement with ATC facilities to define and clarify responsibilities.
-
Thanks Davolijj,
That was my next question!
Greg
-
In CLT the ramp tower is located directly above the main atrium of the terminal. They handle traffic from the entry/exit spots to the gates. I believe the express concourse flights are handed off to the north ramp frequency when they cross the intermediate hold line. It really is quite interesting listening to the fine USAirways staff handling the ramp functions.
-
If you listen to Boston, you'll hear Clearance Delevery either ask planes to "monitor ground for the push" or "contact the ramp for push", depending on where they're parked. So they have a split system.
I have yet to find a good gate chart of KBOS. Anyone know where to locate one?
-
There's also usually minimal coordination between ATC and airline ramp controllers - although there are airline personnel that coordinate with ATC. If you listen to JFK ground enough you will hear them complain about the JetBlue ramp controllers. I have also witnessed really poor errors of judgment by ramp controllers, such as pushing an a/c back while an emergency aircraft (with a sick passenger) is trying to pull into the ramp. This happens fairly often, I recall reading about a more serious incident where an a/c with a hemophilic child, bleeding out, was trying to return to the ramp, and ramp knowing this pushed another a/c out while the emergency a/c was trying to get back in; blocking the alleyway.
-
As a former ramp controller now CRJ f/o, I'll put my 2 cents in here.
Ramp controllers are usually (not always) airline employees, but are almost never FAA Air Traffic Controllers. Depending on the airport, coordination between Ramp and Ground is usually pretty good (except for JFK, which has its own challenges).
Here are some ramp controlled airports that I've worked/visited:
CVG - Comair has 2 ramp controllers, Delta has 2 ramp controllers
BOS - Delta controls the area past K4 in the main/satellite/B terminal area
JFK - numerous ramp controllers by numerous airlines
ORD - numerous ramp controllers by numerous airlines
MCO - Delta controls their airside ramp area (I'm not sure who controls the other airsides)
LGA - numerous ramp controllers by numerous airlines
ATL - numerous ramp controllers (I think they are Delta employees, but not 100% sure)
CLT - 2 USAirways ramp controllers
Yes, I know there are many more examples out there
-
Is an airline employed ramp controller a peculiarly American thing or does anyone know of any non-US examples? As far as I know most places elsewhere use ATC Ground Control for the same functions (like the smaller US airports I guess). Please correct me if I am wrong.
-
Ive been listening the KPHL tower feed and noticed that after some taxi instructions they say contact the ramp on so and so frequency. Why do they do this there, and not at say KJFK for example? Or at least I havent heard it.
-
There are so many different ramp control frequencies that the ground controllers would have a tough time keeping up with it. It's purely an airline organizational thing to contact ramp control (ie there is nothing legality-wise that says you must). Every ramp at JFK is controlled by ramp controllers.
-
For anyone who's interested, there is now a Boston Ramp feed up. See the Class B page, its right in with Ground and Delivery.
-
I think Detroit (KDTW) has ramp control. I was at work doing the GS-S/OL radio a while back and the computer system we have can patch into most frequencies that the airport uses. On the log/caller ID window it showed FAA 1,2,3,4 which after looking up saw that it was mostly the ground frequencies but also Ramp 1-4 popped up. I know there is a smaller secondary tower in the center of the terminal but I've never really heard of a purpose for it that made sense until I read this thread and saw the frequencies. If I lived closer and had the extra cash I'd try and get a KDTW feed set up.
-
Yes, that is indeed correct. DTW has a mess of frequencies, 4 different ramp controllers and 4 different FAA ground controllers. What makes it even more of a mess is that you don't always contact ramp control to get in/out of the gates. For example, the even gates of concourses B and C utilize the southwest ground control (132.72) and there are 2 gates at Concourse A that utilize the northwest ground control (121.8) for taxi in and pushback.
-
The question was pretty much answered, but I'll pitch in as well.
At LAS, there are two different ramp towers; one on 129.17 (previously 124.4) that covers the A, B, and C gates, as well as the International terminal. Their tower is located above the main terminal, but is separate from the actual Tower. The other ramp tower (127.9) is above the D gates. The actual FAA ATCT is in between them (you pass it on the train to the C gates), so you can definitely see the separation there.
What is interesting is that sometimes when an arrival gets in, Tower will give them the taxi instructions, and have them contact Ramp directly. You'll hear that quite often on the LAS Tower feed.
BL.
-
the even gates of concourses B and C utilize the southwest ground control (132.72) and there are 2 gates at Concourse A that utilize the northwest ground control (121.8) for taxi in and pushback.
I would guess that's because the even B/C gates are on the far side of the ramp tower where the view is obscured by the terminal building. The two A gates are a mystery to me. I'd think that they're probably the two northernmost gates which are directly under the FAA tower. Keep in mind that these are just guesses.