Author Topic: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)  (Read 36201 times)

Offline Phlux

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Re: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2010, 11:55:16 AM »
Phone video from inside the plane.

Charlotte Ground - "Cactus 1441, hold short of mike and give way to the RJ..."

US Airways 1441 - "We have priority here, this same thing happened last time..."

Charlotte Ground - "You have priority when I give it to you, now hold short Cactus 1441..

Offline svoynick

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Re: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2010, 03:00:07 PM »
Eric...  Very nice work compiling that.  It was a good listen, and yes I listened to it all the way through!

Please don't take this as a criticism, but just a double check for curiosity...  I load the clip with a total track time of 17:39, but within that, I hear two repeated sections:

Section from 2:00-2:24 is repeated from 2:25 to 2:49  (initial call that they were returning)
Section from 11:48-12:03 is repeated from 12:04-12:19 (right to 010 and request for 28R)

Do you hear that, too, or did I just get a corrupted download somehow?

Also my favorite moment:  whoever was working the radio in the cockpit was very cool and clear and professional, but when ATC said that the copmany dispatch wanted to know what the failure was, he just, almost let go for a moment....  "Uh look uh... "...and tell dispatch that we're not in a position to pass that sort of information to them at this stage."

Is my translation from remarkably polite Aussie to English correct?  Did I catch the undertone here:   "Tell dispatch to PISS OFF 'til we're done flying the airplane!"

Offline flyflyfly

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Re: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2010, 04:46:25 PM »
Also my favorite moment:  whoever was working the radio in the cockpit was very cool and clear and professional, but when ATC said that the copmany dispatch wanted to know what the failure was, he just, almost let go for a moment....  "Uh look uh... "...and tell dispatch that we're not in a position to pass that sort of information to them at this stage."

Is my translation from remarkably polite Aussie to English correct?  Did I catch the undertone here:   "Tell dispatch to PISS OFF 'til we're done flying the airplane!"

That was exactly what I thought. It was the only moment the pilot clearly hesitated.
Why would dispatch want to know more about the failure at this time anyway? Well, probably to determine the impact on their schedule - depending on whether they could return the plane to service quickly, or whether it needs to be grounded longer for repairs. That's exactly the kind of issues in which pilots, still really busy with returning a broken plane to the ground, are absolutely not interested in...

Offline Eric M

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Re: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2010, 07:11:41 PM »
Svoynick, no offense taken at all. It's possible I accidentally doubled a couple of snippets, working across multiple files. I intentionally left in a few of the fuel dump warnings, but any other duplications were not intended.

At any rate, I was happy to be a contributor here for a change, instead of just a consumer!

Offline MCM

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Re: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2010, 12:48:45 AM »
svoynick - your translation is spot on.

Operations will always want to know everything - usually because the media will be knocking at the front door before the aircraft has even landed.

Doesn't mean the crew will give them the answers though... that comes when they've got the spare time.

Offline svoynick

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Re: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2010, 03:12:13 AM »
svoynick - your translation is spot on.

Operations will always want to know everything - usually because the media will be knocking at the front door before the aircraft has even landed.

Doesn't mean the crew will give them the answers though... that comes when they've got the spare time.
Yeah - it's been touched on in other threads, like with an engine out after takeoff...
(like here: http://www.liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips/ei-120-engine-failure-at-kmco/
I have great respect listening to pilots who, once they declare the emergency, and ATC is asking for information and (helpfully) suggesting vectors, etc... just kinda say (effectively) "you know, we don't want to rush into anything, we just need to fly it for a few minutes out here, get our aircraft and cockpit in order, and well let you know what we need next..."  It's cool to hear situations handled like that.

Fly the plane.  Fly the plane.  Fly the plane.

And Eric - just to reiterate, it's a great clip and nice work.  I even liked that you left in the multiple fuel dump calls, because it taught me that the controller stays on top of that and issues periodic "Attention all aircraft" calls to warn other traffic that it's going on.  Imagine flying through that hydrocarbon rain!

 - Stan

Offline Katanada

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Re: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2010, 10:26:22 AM »
After taking a look at the pictures, my preliminary guess is that the engine suffered what is referred to as "rotor burst". From the pictures it looks to be one of the forward stages of the LP turbine (N1).

Rotor burst rarely happens and its pretty much always uncontainable (unfortunately).

Offline joeyb747

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Re: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2010, 02:44:50 PM »
After taking a look at the pictures, my preliminary guess is that the engine suffered what is referred to as "rotor burst". From the pictures it looks to be one of the forward stages of the LP turbine (N1).

Rotor burst rarely happens and its pretty much always uncontainable (unfortunately).

My thoughts exactly. the pics are not the greatest...kind of grainy, but that was my guess...
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Offline A_J_D_C

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Re: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2010, 02:46:21 PM »
 :-o  :-o at time 14:10 on the clip the aircrafts on a five mile final when the twr notices that they haven't got there landing lights on  :-P...Considering the circumstances they done a great job, and the clip is awsome, covers the lot, good work

Offline MCM

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Re: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2010, 11:12:37 AM »
And did you notice the reply to that? Not one of surprise, but one of understanding.

What was the visibility and weather like at the time?

Offline joeyb747

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Re: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2010, 07:57:35 PM »
"An visual engine inspection following disassembly of the engine showed that all turbine blades had separated from the IP (intermediate pressure) turbine disk. The blades of the three LP (low pressure) turbine stages were fractured through the airfoil section of had separated from the disk. The LP stage nozzle guide vanes were destroyed, the remaining LP nozzles were substantially damaged. The LP turbine bearing and adjacent phonic wheel and speed probe were destroyed. The IP shaft was severed towards the aft end."

From the updated Avherald article:

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4305467b/0003&opt=0

A great close-up photo of the damaged Stage 1 Low Pressure Turbine and the Intermediate Pressure Turbine is included in the report.
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Offline joeyb747

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Re: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2010, 08:05:48 PM »
...not another one... :|

"A Qantas Boeing 747-400, registration VH-OJD performing flight QF-6 from Singapore (Singapore) to Sydney,NS (Australia) with 412 passengers and 19 crew, was in the intial climb out of Singapore when the crew decided to return to Singapore due to a problem with the #1 engine (RB211, outboard left). The airplane dumped fuel and landed safely about 60 minutes after departure.

Passengers reported hearing a "small" bang from the engine and seeing streaks of flame from the engine exhaust."


From:

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=433137f6&opt=0

To early to tell yet, and no pics accompany the article, but it may be related to the original topic here and the A380 thread in the other forum...there are ADs out on both the Rolls Royce Trent 900 Series (A380) and RB211 (B744) powerplants...

I linked to the ADs in the A380 thread if anyone would like to read them. Here is a shortcut to the A380 thread:

http://www.liveatc.net/forums/listener-forum/qantas-grounds-all-a380's-after-explosion/
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 08:10:25 PM by joeyb747 »
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Offline SASD209

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Re: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2010, 03:38:52 AM »
How did I miss this one when it happened?
Eric M, thanks much for the audio, really great job putting it all together!!   :-)

Offline Eric M

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Re: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2010, 12:27:54 AM »
How did I miss this one when it happened?
Eric M, thanks much for the audio, really great job putting it all together!!   :-)

Happy to do it, and I'm glad you found it as interesting as I did.

Offline briantambrose@gmail.com

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Re: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2010, 12:45:26 AM »
thanks for posting this. very good lessons to be learned.