Author Topic: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)  (Read 93386 times)

Offline LHP50

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2007, 12:48:26 PM »
EvilCuban,  "LH reminds me of him"?!!!  Hmmm, I'm not used to being compared with anyone.  LH

Offline LHP50

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2007, 01:15:39 PM »
No offense to HD, I would love to work next to him, but...in the first 60 seconds of the tape I found several 'techniques' I would not use.  Saying "That is correct sir" and "Definately, do that sir" without using a callsign, is wrong.  This can cause errors when one pilot asks a question that the controller doesn't hear because of more than one pilot talking at once.  Without a callsign to start the transmission, "Do that sir" could cause anyone to do anything.  "You can reduce speed to 2-1-0": I don't give permission, I give commands.  It sounds like his traffic management was awesome, his phraseology was not.  Numerous examples on issuing speeds in group form, "go direct" instead of "cleared direct" are examples.  Again, I am not knocking this performance, I am pointing out that the goal is to do the same job with prescribed phaseology.  It is not easy.  I will post a clip from Fri June 1st at Phoenix tomorrow.  I don't know how good it will be, I do know that we exceeded the arrival rate for Phoenix by a considerable margin and I was riding the edge.  Do not confuse folksy phraseology with being good.   
LH

Offline dave

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2007, 05:25:05 AM »
No offense to HD, I would love to work next to him, but...in the first 60 seconds of the tape I found several 'techniques' I would not use.  Saying "That is correct sir" and "Definately, do that sir" without using a callsign, is wrong.  This can cause errors when one pilot asks a question that the controller doesn't hear because of more than one pilot talking at once.  Without a callsign to start the transmission, "Do that sir" could cause anyone to do anything.  "You can reduce speed to 2-1-0": I don't give permission, I give commands.  It sounds like his traffic management was awesome, his phraseology was not.  Numerous examples on issuing speeds in group form, "go direct" instead of "cleared direct" are examples.  Again, I am not knocking this performance, I am pointing out that the goal is to do the same job with prescribed phaseology.  It is not easy.  I will post a clip from Fri June 1st at Phoenix tomorrow.  I don't know how good it will be, I do know that we exceeded the arrival rate for Phoenix by a considerable margin and I was riding the edge.  Do not confuse folksy phraseology with being good.   
LH

You may be right, but not a single place in that recording was it ambiguous who he was talking to.  He had complete command of the frequency.  I have heard some controllers with 100% perfect phraseology simply go down the tubes.  He established a tempo, and the pilots responded to it.  Gotta love that.  But I do see your point - if the casual phraseology gets too out of control, bad things *could* happen.

So I'm not really disagreeing with you, the phraseology is there for a very good reason.  And I totally hear you.  But the primary goal is keeping planes separated.  Always.

Love to hear your recording when you have the time LHP50!  Rock on.

Dave


Offline LHP50

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2007, 10:26:48 AM »
Dave, HD is obviously what I would call a "natural".  Whatever it is that makes a controller, he's got it.  It's not just the pilots that benefit from his control of the situation.  This is the kind of person you want sitting next to you in the trenches; calm, in control, dependable.   

Offline Guzai

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2007, 10:18:06 AM »
i heard this at my friend's, but i can't really download the file.. any help.. confirm/ackd plz

Offline SweedChef

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2007, 02:24:50 PM »
The man of the hour is at CVG according to the FAA Employee's database. See: employees.faa.gov  and check out the directory.

Many years ago (I think it's closer to 5-6 years old actually) the old chief of the virtual NY ARTCC distributed copies of this.  I had one of the tape copies sent out for years and years, but it got lost in all the moves and car changes I've had.

I am SO glad that this clip still exists.  It is truly a brilliant display of ATC prowess, skill, and ability.  I will always remember "peaches and cream," and I swear one day when I'm busy as hell, I will say that on frequency, QA be damned.

~Nate

Would someone mind explaining the "Peaches and Cream" reference for us newbies?

Offline ricardo759

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2007, 09:10:27 PM »
Amazing!

Offline medik06

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2007, 11:16:10 AM »
What on... :? :?
. . . I don't give permission, I give commands . . .
:-o  :-o  :-o  :-o  :? :? :? :?,

I think i have to agree with dave on this one, 
Quote
He established a tempo, and the pilots responded to it.
. . . the guy was in complete control throughout. . . and those were commands, said in a nice way  :-D :-D
I think this guy qualifies under pure geneous  :lol: :lol:

I like how he says
Quote
Its a beautiful thing
  :-D :-D :-D

Awesome guy :mrgreen:
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Offline bogman

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2007, 08:17:39 PM »
What a clip,he just had enough time to breathe between planes. I live in Cork Ireland,about 3/4 miles as the crow flies from the airport. The controllers there would have enough time to make a sandwich and read the paper between flights.There is no way they could do what I just heard here it was amazing.

Offline dave

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2007, 08:26:18 AM »
What a clip,he just had enough time to breathe between planes. I live in Cork Ireland,about 3/4 miles as the crow flies from the airport. The controllers there would have enough time to make a sandwich and read the paper between flights.There is no way they could do what I just heard here it was amazing.

Even controllers within a facility can vary in capability.  They all get the same training, but like anything ese in life there are certain people who has more innate skill to handle things when the chips are really down.

I have been into an ATC facility where the controllers on one side of the room handle a relatively tranquil airspace and the ones on the other side handle constantly busy airspace.  I have it on pretty good authority that the ones on the tranquil side essentially washed out when trying to handle the constantly busy side (during some cross-training exercises and simulations).   So I think a lot of this is training and how early in your career you get to handle a lot of traffic.  Not that some of those controllers couldn't be brought up to speed, it would just take more training.

Dave


Offline bogman

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2007, 06:46:32 PM »
I'm not saying they are not good at there job,they are ,it is just the amount of planes they land and depart are alot different than the likes of  KBOS OR KJFK.

I enjoy listening to them on my scanner,speaking of which,my scanner is a Uniden  UBC92XLT.  I can listen to the tower and radar no problem,I can hear the ground controller no problem as well but i cannot hear the plane repeating back the instructions or making requests.I have the frequncey for the airport police and can hear them no problem-which are on the ground.

Also I  have the frequenices for ground handlers to contact inbound planes to see if there are any requests i.e. wheelchair etc. but this is very  hard to make out.

My question is there any way i can boost my hand held scanner  for a better recption.

Any advise would be grateful.

Regards ,

Bogman

P.S HOPE ALL THE AMERICANS ON THIS SITE HAD A GOOD THANKS GIVING.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2007, 07:35:11 AM by bogman »

Offline MathFox

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2007, 12:00:13 PM »
I live in Cork Ireland,about 3/4 miles as the crow flies from the airport.
My question is there any way i can boost my hand held scanner  for a better recption.
The standard answer is "a proper outdoor antenna".
If you are within a mile from the airport and can't receive planes on the ground that must be caused by obstacles in the path of the radio waves. Does the terminal building stand between you and the planes?

Offline w5cdt

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2007, 12:50:17 PM »
I use an outdoor discone at 20 feet.  I can hear a/c on the
ground, ATIS, and of course a/c in the air.  I am 15nm west of KAUS.
My receiver is an ICOM R7000.   :wink:

Offline bogman

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2007, 06:16:20 PM »
Hey MathFox,


I am at the oppiste side of the city to the airport but i can see the planes from my house landing into runway 17 or when they take off from runway 35.In saying all this I cannot see the airport directly.

I also live next to high power electricty lines that probably does not help.


What i cannot understand is i can hear the ground controller,and also the airport sometimes on the ramp and i cannot hear the aircraft.


Bogman

Offline Hollis

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2007, 07:27:46 PM »
Ground stations have their antennas mounted high on top of buildings, whereas aircraft antenna are normally on the belly of their fuselage, hence more subject to blockage by solid objects such as buildings and even other aircraft. Further, their power output (wattage) is much lower than that of fixed stations.

Offline aviator_06

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2007, 06:48:49 PM »
This is one of the best controllers put there. Will not get any better than this.

Offline MrMac

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2007, 06:28:21 AM »
No doubt it ... he's fantastic!
Ever hear KORD Ground during rush hour?
Those folks might be a close 2nd to HD !!

Ps. I live 1/2 mile from KMDW tower.
Any suggestions as to the best scanner & setup.
Thanks!
Mrmac1942, aka APS group
CFA&I (ret)

Offline The Hoffspatcher

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2007, 08:46:20 AM »
That's quite some controlling, very smooth.

"Delta 336 how you doin?"
"Good, yourslef/"
"Ah, cant complain here, work for the Government"

 :lol: :lol:
Ben Hoffman; BAv, ADX
Trust your Dispatcher!

Offline rickfusaro

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2008, 10:55:38 AM »
where on line do I find kbos or JFK live radar thanks rick

xprtmarksman

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2008, 09:43:28 PM »
Yes, the HD is an awesome controller, but the pilots did a great job of understanding all of his instructions on the first try.  Pilots with great situational awareness always help out in busy situations like this. 

Offline Jambone

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2008, 04:55:28 PM »
He doesn't breathe for air!  :-o Incredible  :-D

Offline laylow

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2008, 02:57:36 AM »
Intense.

Offline slyguytoo

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2008, 06:20:11 PM »
he must have been born in the energizer factory hes a monster! sorry got over excited im still a bit new to this world...but thats how good he is..even i can tell he is good haha!

Offline binky

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2008, 12:29:18 PM »
If hes so good why is he slowing aircraft to 150 IAS and sending aircraft through the final approach course for spacing?  Might sound good, but what is happening can be totally different and we have no way to know if its clean or a mess, digging his way out and shafting tower with his spacing.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 12:32:26 PM by binky »

Offline dave

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Re: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)
« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2008, 12:33:56 PM »
Sounds good, but if he's so good why is he slowing aircraft to 150 IAS?

1) Heavy flow. 
2) Not a lot of vectoring space. 
3) Building a little more room for holes to weave more arrivals.
3) Leaving himself a little room in case a pilot screws up.

Hard to really say for sure since we'd have to be able to see what the radar screen looked like at that point in time.  :-)