LiveATC Discussion Forums
Air Traffic Monitoring => Aviation Audio Clips => Topic started by: dave on June 01, 2005, 02:08:03 PM
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Listen to this one hour clip...great stuff!
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Great Clip Dave!! HD is awesome at pushing Tin!
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Is there any link to listen to New York approach? The clip was awesome and I'd like more!
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Listen to this one hour clip...great stuff!
Dave, do you have the date and time of this clip? It would be additionally entertaining to sync it up with the Passur ATC radar data, found here:
http://www4.passur.com/ewr.html
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It's at least 2 or 3 years old, or more. Don't have the exact date.
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It's at least 2 or 3 years old, or more. Don't have the exact date.
Ahh, that old...
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never heard so busy traffic. Amazing!
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5 or 6 years ago HD was pretty active with us at vZBW and trained all the tracon controllers here. To anyone who thought they were God's gift to virtual control, an hour with HD would leave you wanting to take up chess.
HD would take off every evening from EWR as N90EWR and fly to Boston and pepper every controller with questions enroute. He did it so often that when everyone saw N90EWR pop up at EWR filed for Boston almost everyone would immediately log off. The guy could clear a room faster than a bean fart.
One hell of a nice guy and a freakin genius controlling traffic.
DAL211
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Wow. :shock:
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proud to have EWR as my home airport 8)
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That was phenomenal. Any more clips of him? Has anyone heard from him recently?
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That was phenomenal. Any more clips of him? Has anyone heard from him recently?
Nope. Last I heard he's out at CVG now; transferred out of N90 a few years ago due to personal reasons.
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That was NUT'S..... :-o
He is one of the best i've ever heard !!!
was the clip in real time ? dead air taken out ???
....Sean.....
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Sean- yes, unless that is REALLY, REEAALLLY good editing, its real-time. You can hear the mics keying on and off, he's just that good. Wonder what the personal reasons were? Too high of a stress level if it's always like that, I bet! We have a CVG feed don't we...wonder if he's ever on there.
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Sean- yes, unless that is REALLY, REEAALLLY good editing, its real-time. You can hear the mics keying on and off, he's just that good. Wonder what the personal reasons were? Too high of a stress level if it's always like that, I bet! We have a CVG feed don't we...wonder if he's ever on there.
As far as I know, it was in real time. And no, from the story I got, the personal reasons did not include stress level.
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That is definately a smooth approach controller. You have to give kudo's to the pilots also for following his directions so well and not cluttering the freq with excess phraseology. Of course i'm curious where the Lear was going at the beginning when he was given direct to TEB.... :lol:
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Jason- Well cool, thanks for the info. If it's personal reasons I won't venture any more into why (only curious anyway) unless he himself wants to come on here and talk about it. I wish he would come on VATSIM! I'd love to have the opportunity to just chat him up for 5 minutes, it would be such an opportunity to learn... I was just floored through that entire 56 minute clip. LH reminds of him, too.
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Jason- Well cool, thanks for the info. If it's personal reasons I won't venture any more into why (only curious anyway) unless he himself wants to come on here and talk about it. I wish he would come on VATSIM! I'd love to have the opportunity to just chat him up for 5 minutes, it would be such an opportunity to learn... I was just floored through that entire 56 minute clip. LH reminds of him, too.
He still is a member of vZBW on VATSIM, but hasn't been active for many years. When he was active, I heard he was an amazing asset to have.
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I like the speed restrictions...this guy as an incredible capability of holding several actions at once without loosing situational awareness. Just beautiful!!! :-)
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Jason- Well cool, thanks for the info. If it's personal reasons I won't venture any more into why (only curious anyway) unless he himself wants to come on here and talk about it. I wish he would come on VATSIM! I'd love to have the opportunity to just chat him up for 5 minutes, it would be such an opportunity to learn... I was just floored through that entire 56 minute clip. LH reminds of him, too.
He still is a member of vZBW on VATSIM, but hasn't been active for many years. When he was active, I heard he was an amazing asset to have.
WOW! This same controller was on VATSIM!?!??! :-o :-o :-o
I wish he would join the LA ARTCC for air traffic control, they certainly need it! Lol...
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That was phenomenal. Any more clips of him? Has anyone heard from him recently?
Nope. Last I heard he's out at CVG now; transferred out of N90 a few years ago due to personal reasons.
As a CVG flyer, I don't think he's at CVG, definitely don't have this voice at CVG
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As a CVG flyer, I don't think he's at CVG, definitely don't have this voice at CVG
All I know is that he transfered from N90 to CVG a few years ago and has a CTO for CVG tower (according to the FAA database), but nothing beyond that. He could have retired.
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All I know is that he transfered from N90 to CVG a few years ago and has a CTO for CVG tower (according to the FAA database), but nothing beyond that. He could have retired.
Where can I find this database? That would be pretty interesting to see
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The man of the hour is at CVG according to the FAA Employee's database. See: employees.faa.gov (http://employees.faa.gov) and check out the directory.
Many years ago (I think it's closer to 5-6 years old actually) the old chief of the virtual NY ARTCC distributed copies of this. I had one of the tape copies sent out for years and years, but it got lost in all the moves and car changes I've had.
I am SO glad that this clip still exists. It is truly a brilliant display of ATC prowess, skill, and ability. I will always remember "peaches and cream," and I swear one day when I'm busy as hell, I will say that on frequency, QA be damned.
~Nate
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FAA Registry: Airmen Certification Inquiry (https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/) Since ATCSs have to get medicals just like pilots, most of them are entered into the FAA Registry.
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EvilCuban, "LH reminds me of him"?!!! Hmmm, I'm not used to being compared with anyone. LH
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No offense to HD, I would love to work next to him, but...in the first 60 seconds of the tape I found several 'techniques' I would not use. Saying "That is correct sir" and "Definately, do that sir" without using a callsign, is wrong. This can cause errors when one pilot asks a question that the controller doesn't hear because of more than one pilot talking at once. Without a callsign to start the transmission, "Do that sir" could cause anyone to do anything. "You can reduce speed to 2-1-0": I don't give permission, I give commands. It sounds like his traffic management was awesome, his phraseology was not. Numerous examples on issuing speeds in group form, "go direct" instead of "cleared direct" are examples. Again, I am not knocking this performance, I am pointing out that the goal is to do the same job with prescribed phaseology. It is not easy. I will post a clip from Fri June 1st at Phoenix tomorrow. I don't know how good it will be, I do know that we exceeded the arrival rate for Phoenix by a considerable margin and I was riding the edge. Do not confuse folksy phraseology with being good.
LH
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No offense to HD, I would love to work next to him, but...in the first 60 seconds of the tape I found several 'techniques' I would not use. Saying "That is correct sir" and "Definately, do that sir" without using a callsign, is wrong. This can cause errors when one pilot asks a question that the controller doesn't hear because of more than one pilot talking at once. Without a callsign to start the transmission, "Do that sir" could cause anyone to do anything. "You can reduce speed to 2-1-0": I don't give permission, I give commands. It sounds like his traffic management was awesome, his phraseology was not. Numerous examples on issuing speeds in group form, "go direct" instead of "cleared direct" are examples. Again, I am not knocking this performance, I am pointing out that the goal is to do the same job with prescribed phaseology. It is not easy. I will post a clip from Fri June 1st at Phoenix tomorrow. I don't know how good it will be, I do know that we exceeded the arrival rate for Phoenix by a considerable margin and I was riding the edge. Do not confuse folksy phraseology with being good.
LH
You may be right, but not a single place in that recording was it ambiguous who he was talking to. He had complete command of the frequency. I have heard some controllers with 100% perfect phraseology simply go down the tubes. He established a tempo, and the pilots responded to it. Gotta love that. But I do see your point - if the casual phraseology gets too out of control, bad things *could* happen.
So I'm not really disagreeing with you, the phraseology is there for a very good reason. And I totally hear you. But the primary goal is keeping planes separated. Always.
Love to hear your recording when you have the time LHP50! Rock on.
Dave
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Dave, HD is obviously what I would call a "natural". Whatever it is that makes a controller, he's got it. It's not just the pilots that benefit from his control of the situation. This is the kind of person you want sitting next to you in the trenches; calm, in control, dependable.
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i heard this at my friend's, but i can't really download the file.. any help.. confirm/ackd plz
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The man of the hour is at CVG according to the FAA Employee's database. See: employees.faa.gov (http://employees.faa.gov) and check out the directory.
Many years ago (I think it's closer to 5-6 years old actually) the old chief of the virtual NY ARTCC distributed copies of this. I had one of the tape copies sent out for years and years, but it got lost in all the moves and car changes I've had.
I am SO glad that this clip still exists. It is truly a brilliant display of ATC prowess, skill, and ability. I will always remember "peaches and cream," and I swear one day when I'm busy as hell, I will say that on frequency, QA be damned.
~Nate
Would someone mind explaining the "Peaches and Cream" reference for us newbies?
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Amazing!
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What on... :? :?
. . . I don't give permission, I give commands . . .
:-o :-o :-o :-o :? :? :? :?,
I think i have to agree with dave on this one, He established a tempo, and the pilots responded to it.
. . . the guy was in complete control throughout. . . and those were commands, said in a nice way :-D :-D
I think this guy qualifies under pure geneous :lol: :lol:
I like how he says Its a beautiful thing
:-D :-D :-D
Awesome guy :mrgreen:
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What a clip,he just had enough time to breathe between planes. I live in Cork Ireland,about 3/4 miles as the crow flies from the airport. The controllers there would have enough time to make a sandwich and read the paper between flights.There is no way they could do what I just heard here it was amazing.
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What a clip,he just had enough time to breathe between planes. I live in Cork Ireland,about 3/4 miles as the crow flies from the airport. The controllers there would have enough time to make a sandwich and read the paper between flights.There is no way they could do what I just heard here it was amazing.
Even controllers within a facility can vary in capability. They all get the same training, but like anything ese in life there are certain people who has more innate skill to handle things when the chips are really down.
I have been into an ATC facility where the controllers on one side of the room handle a relatively tranquil airspace and the ones on the other side handle constantly busy airspace. I have it on pretty good authority that the ones on the tranquil side essentially washed out when trying to handle the constantly busy side (during some cross-training exercises and simulations). So I think a lot of this is training and how early in your career you get to handle a lot of traffic. Not that some of those controllers couldn't be brought up to speed, it would just take more training.
Dave
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I'm not saying they are not good at there job,they are ,it is just the amount of planes they land and depart are alot different than the likes of KBOS OR KJFK.
I enjoy listening to them on my scanner,speaking of which,my scanner is a Uniden UBC92XLT. I can listen to the tower and radar no problem,I can hear the ground controller no problem as well but i cannot hear the plane repeating back the instructions or making requests.I have the frequncey for the airport police and can hear them no problem-which are on the ground.
Also I have the frequenices for ground handlers to contact inbound planes to see if there are any requests i.e. wheelchair etc. but this is very hard to make out.
My question is there any way i can boost my hand held scanner for a better recption.
Any advise would be grateful.
Regards ,
Bogman
P.S HOPE ALL THE AMERICANS ON THIS SITE HAD A GOOD THANKS GIVING.
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I live in Cork Ireland,about 3/4 miles as the crow flies from the airport.
My question is there any way i can boost my hand held scanner for a better recption.
The standard answer is "a proper outdoor antenna".
If you are within a mile from the airport and can't receive planes on the ground that must be caused by obstacles in the path of the radio waves. Does the terminal building stand between you and the planes?
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I use an outdoor discone at 20 feet. I can hear a/c on the
ground, ATIS, and of course a/c in the air. I am 15nm west of KAUS.
My receiver is an ICOM R7000. :wink:
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Hey MathFox,
I am at the oppiste side of the city to the airport but i can see the planes from my house landing into runway 17 or when they take off from runway 35.In saying all this I cannot see the airport directly.
I also live next to high power electricty lines that probably does not help.
What i cannot understand is i can hear the ground controller,and also the airport sometimes on the ramp and i cannot hear the aircraft.
Bogman
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Ground stations have their antennas mounted high on top of buildings, whereas aircraft antenna are normally on the belly of their fuselage, hence more subject to blockage by solid objects such as buildings and even other aircraft. Further, their power output (wattage) is much lower than that of fixed stations.
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This is one of the best controllers put there. Will not get any better than this.
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No doubt it ... he's fantastic!
Ever hear KORD Ground during rush hour?
Those folks might be a close 2nd to HD !!
Ps. I live 1/2 mile from KMDW tower.
Any suggestions as to the best scanner & setup.
Thanks!
Mrmac1942, aka APS group
CFA&I (ret)
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That's quite some controlling, very smooth.
"Delta 336 how you doin?"
"Good, yourslef/"
"Ah, cant complain here, work for the Government"
:lol: :lol:
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where on line do I find kbos or JFK live radar thanks rick
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Yes, the HD is an awesome controller, but the pilots did a great job of understanding all of his instructions on the first try. Pilots with great situational awareness always help out in busy situations like this.
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He doesn't breathe for air! :-o Incredible :-D
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Intense.
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he must have been born in the energizer factory hes a monster! sorry got over excited im still a bit new to this world...but thats how good he is..even i can tell he is good haha!
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If hes so good why is he slowing aircraft to 150 IAS and sending aircraft through the final approach course for spacing? Might sound good, but what is happening can be totally different and we have no way to know if its clean or a mess, digging his way out and shafting tower with his spacing.
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Sounds good, but if he's so good why is he slowing aircraft to 150 IAS?
1) Heavy flow.
2) Not a lot of vectoring space.
3) Building a little more room for holes to weave more arrivals.
3) Leaving himself a little room in case a pilot screws up.
Hard to really say for sure since we'd have to be able to see what the radar screen looked like at that point in time. :-)
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Definitely a great recording :) I've listened to it a couple of times now, and I just turned it on again while I'm doing homework :)
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Slowing aircraft to 150kts or vectoring through final for spacing are all valuable tools to the controller. It is not a sign of weakness or screw up. At busier facilities these things are done all day.
Where do you work binky?
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Slowing aircraft to 150kts or vectoring through final for spacing are all valuable tools to the controller. It is not a sign of weakness or screw up. At busier facilities these things are done all day.
What about 360s? This past Monday I overheard 360s (not holds) being handed out to a bunch of aircraft inbound to LaGuardia from the north. First time I heard that tactic used over that many aircraft.
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Using a 360 instead of a holding pattern can be useful. It avoids the pilots needing to set up a holding pattern and the controllers do not have to go through the whole holding clearance and EFC time. For a short delay it is the way to go.
Not recommended when aircraft are in trail at the same altitude!
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First of all the title of the thread is "One of the very best approach controllers...". Perhaps it should have been called "best sounding.." because that's all it is to me and why I critique what he's saying. Because no one can see what was happening with the traffic, I can assume that he's behind when he sends aircraft through the localizer for spacing, because its not the way things are normally done. Yes it happens, but if things work out ideally, it doesn't happen. I'm not saying he's messing up, but perhaps tweaking. Same with the speeds, slowing jets to 150 isn't standard practice so it says to me he may have run two aircraft too tight and has to back one off to get the spacing he needs. So does that make him the very best? Because he uses speed adjustment and vectors through the approach course?
As far as 360's, that's a whole different topic. This is about EWR approach, not the feeder sector but I'd love to hear someone explain how 360's are used by EWR approach. As far as where I work, what if I say Walmart? My point is people fall in love with someones R/T and it leads them to think that that person is better or worse than another controller which is totally ridiculous.
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binky-
I think he is one of the very best approach controllers because:
1) I know him personally.
2) I know controllers who have controlled with him. And *they* say he's good.
3) He trained me and several other VATSIM controllers and he did a great job at that.
4) He taught at the Academy.
All of that has nothing to do with this recording. I never said he was better or worse than anyone else. All I was trying to do was provide some entertainment. This is not a contest.
I'm not sure why you're challenging his competency because he had aircraft going 150 knots. As any competent TRACON controller will tell you, there is not "one way" or any necessarily "standard" way to do things. Every controller has his or her own style.
I think this thread has taken an unnecessarily negative turn - perhaps you just misread or misinterpreted the original post that was made some time ago.
-dave
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My only real point was to say that people here shouldnt immediately equate somthing as simplistic as how they think a voice sounds on frequency with their perceived level of proficiency. That's why I mentioned that there were things done which *might* show that he was actually having to tweak his traffic to make it work, instead of just saying "WOW dude that guy is awesome!!" If that bothers you because you know the person, I'm sorry I offended you but please don't tell me that 'Pushing Tin' was realistic too.
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Tweaking traffic to make it work is what good controllers do, binky. The ones who don't have the ability to tweak it and do everything standard are the ones who end up down the crapper. The good ones use all tools available to them.
Who said Pushing Tin was realistic?
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Binky,
Believe it or not, I understand the point you're trying to make. Whether or not his decisions were the most efficient for the situation at hand, we'll never know, and you are correct, the content of this recording doesn't mean he's the BEST controller, or that the controlling couldn't have have been done more efficiently.
What IS clear, though, is that he's handling a large volume of traffic and maintaining absolute control of the frequency for long periods of time. That is not something everyone can do. I'm sure professional ATC folks do it all day long, and might not find this recording to be anything special, but for aspiring controllers, or interested members of the aviation community, it's an amazing display of frequency management, and presence.
Apparently, his ability was not lost on some of the professional pilots that were on the air, too...with comments like "you're the man..." as they left the freq.
Slow speeds and vectors through the approach course are just more tools in the bag, and he used them. In a perfect world, you wouldn't need them...but with this many ppl involved, and lord knows what coming from surrounding sectors (we'll never know from an audio recording), he appeared to be getting the job done.
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Late response I know but new here to this site, that recording makes me tired just litening to this guy, amazing!. Here in oz that recording would amount to about a weeks worth at Aussie's busiest, SYD! You guys are amzing how you fly in that environment.
CW
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Where's this clip?
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Where's this clip?
Just go back to the first posting in the thread.
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Great Clip Dave!! HD is awesome at pushing Tin!
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First time I heard this, and I disagree with "Binky" when he said, "Because no one can see what was happening with the traffic, I can assume that he's behind when he sends aircraft through the localizer for spacing."
Though having the slight advantage of knowing and flown that airspace, I still felt like I was looking right at his screen as he handed off flights to the tower at a rate of one per minute while also sequencing TEB and through traffic. What is more impressive to me but perhaps less noticed is that it appears he even anticipated incoming hand-offs and would hold off on his "insta-replies" every minute or so to allow them to check in... I note that in that entire recording of hundreds of transmissions I do not recall a single double, even when I thought I heard one at around 29m it actually sounds like intermod, so not only was he in complete control of the airspace, he was in complete control of the airwaves as well. Truly remarkable.
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I worked with HD for a few years before he transferred off. He was always a solid controller that you could count on, just like most of the controllers in the EWR area here at N90. Our area has always been the toughest, most complex area in the TRACON to get checkedout on, even though JFK usually gets more fanboys. As for what he's doing, going through the loc, and slowing to 160, or sometimes to 150 may not be "ideal", and probably not used often in a lot of other places, but its not uncommon here. Its mostly due to how our airspace is configured into a funnel when landing 22L. We normally have a lot of compression on final, and having aircraft sequenced to bare minimum separation at a speed that is very close to their final approach speed means we wont lose much more spacing inside the FAF. We don't "gig" too much on silly stuff like strip marking or even phraseology on our area as long as you can get the job done. Usually the slower facilities tend to be more strict on that, but they probably never have to deal with both the complexity and volume that we routinely get here. If you can keep all the aircraft separated safely, and jam pack them at bare minimum separation non stop for a whole session at near perfect efficiency, then...what else matters?
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Wow! Like an auctioneer
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OUTSTANDING!! 8-)
Great Clip Dave! Thanks!
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HD is now a front line manager at the Houston (I90) Tracon.
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HD is now a front line manager at the Houston (I90) Tracon.
:-)
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He still lives. Thanks for the kind words, Dave. There were no skips in that and no, my phraseology wasn't perfect. Man we used to move a lot of airplanes the old fashion way. -- with vectors.
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Hey HD, you said "vector"...brought to mind an old "Airplane" movie clip :-D Sorry, just had to share!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVq4_HhBK8Y
Ron
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HD taught me a lot about controlling when I was becoming a controller on VATSIM years ago. He even gave me my virtual Boston Center checkride. Amazing controller and a great guy.