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Air Traffic Monitoring => Aviation Audio Clips => Topic started by: neondesert on September 30, 2010, 06:10:25 PM

Title: Old Habbits Die Hard
Post by: neondesert on September 30, 2010, 06:10:25 PM

Caught this one while listening to KLAS Tower this afternoon. 

I guess it's going to be a while before Line Up and Wait is second nature.  :-D

Title: Re: Old Habbits Die Hard
Post by: alltheway on September 30, 2010, 06:31:34 PM

 :lol: Position..eh Line up and wait   :-P

Title: Re: Old Habbits Die Hard
Post by: squeegeeboy on October 01, 2010, 04:55:43 PM

Bet there's a lot of that going on, haha. I'm sure with time it'll be no big deal and everyone will forget the old phraseology.

Title: Re: Old Habbits Die Hard
Post by: rjs176cp on October 04, 2010, 01:32:59 AM

She was getting it right before, but she managed to slip up...

Title: Re: Old Habbits Die Hard
Post by: leigh on October 17, 2010, 12:29:52 AM

I'm from outside the industry so this may be a stupid question however...

Why was it changed from "Position and Hold" to "Line Up and Wait"?

Title: Re: Old Habbits Die Hard
Post by: flyflyfly on October 17, 2010, 05:58:57 AM

Quote from: leigh on October 17, 2010, 12:29:52 AM

Why was it changed from "Position and Hold" to "Line Up and Wait"?

FAA's reasons are explained here:
http://www.faa.gov/airports/great_lakes/airports_resources/certification_bulletins/media/10-10.pdf

Quote

In July 2000, the National Transportation Board (NTSB) recommended that FAA phraseology be amended to require the use of standard ICAO phraseology for airport surface operations to further reduce the risk of runway incursions. In addition, the Air Traffic Procedures Advisory Committee requested FAA revise U.S. policy to require the use of the ICAO phrase, “line up and wait”, rather than “position and hold.”

The FAA conducted a safety risk analysis and determined that the use of the words, “position and hold,” are found in a number of air traffic surface instructions, which potentially misleads pilots when only partial communications are heard. Adoption of the “Line up and Wait” phraseology provides a unique instruction for pilots to position their aircraft onto a runway from a holding position.

And here's an animation for the use of the new phraseology:
http://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/news/current_events/lauw/media/LUAWv3Webversion.swf

Title: Re: Old Habbits Die Hard
Post by: alltheway on October 17, 2010, 07:32:14 AM

Quote from: flyflyfly on October 17, 2010, 05:58:57 AM

And here's an animation for the use of the new phraseology:
http://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/news/current_events/lauw/media/LUAWv3Webversion.swf

So it is only used for Cessna's and Pipers......  :evil: