MSP near miss

[klkm]

http://www.wsbtv.com/nationalnews/25131141/detail.html  Saw this article, mentions Liveatc.net haven't seen the recordings posted on here, anyone listen to them, it says shortly before 7am on Sept 16, if anyone wants to put together a nice clip...I don't have the time right now.  Maybe it is here and I missed it.

[DingerX]

September 16, 1130Z recording, halfway through (12:18 on a ~26 min recording).

[cptbrw]

Here's the audio from the MSP feed.  There's not a lot there but it's obvious the controller realized there was a problem.  The comment from USA1848 that he heard the other aircraft go by is not on this feed and the transmissions from BMJ46 (the conflicting aircraft) are very overmodulated and difficult to understand.  Edited for relevant transmissions and time.

Here's the AV Herald article:

http://avherald.com/h?article=4314ee8e&opt=0

[alltheway]

That over modulated voice is not easy to understand, but what I can make of it he says: "one eight zero lefthand traffic, over to departure" It sounds like these are two different frequencies, after this the controller asked "why didn't you start the turn once you where airborne?"

But that is what I hear with my ears

[cptbrw]

There are two different frequencies on the feed, one for 30R and one for 30L.

[cessna157]

This brings up a slight problem that I have with some procedures.

Yes, the Beech was expected to make a left turn upon departure. But why was Cactus given a turn clearance also?  Shouldn't there have been at least some sort  of confirmation that the other aircraft was in the turn first?

A similar situation I get at DTW frequently:  We could on a 1 mile final for 22R, and an aircraft would be given takeoff clearance off 22L with a turn to 230.  If we were to go-around for any reason, there is an instant conflict of 2 aircraft.  I realize the controller wouldn't get a deal from it, but it is a lack of preventative control, is it not?

[alltheway]

Could it be he's saying "airport disclosure" or something similar to that? After the controller asked him why he didn't turn after airborne.

[TC]

This brings up a slight problem that I have with some procedures.

Yes, the Beech was expected to make a left turn upon departure. But why was Cactus given a turn clearance also?  Shouldn't there have been at least some sort  of confirmation that the other aircraft was in the turn first?

A similar situation I get at DTW frequently:  We could on a 1 mile final for 22R, and an aircraft would be given takeoff clearance off 22L with a turn to 230.  If we were to go-around for any reason, there is an instant conflict of 2 aircraft.  I realize the controller wouldn't get a deal from it, but it is a lack of preventative control, is it not?

I'm not sure what you mean by "preventative control" as it's not a term we use.  Maybe you mean positive control, which would make sense.  In the case you describe there are many variables including the speeds and types of the aircraft, weather conditions, etc.  Visual separation is applied in many instances while a controller transitions from one rule to another.  There's a difference between conflict and potential conflict.  We resolve both several times a day and are required to maintain separation, not lack of conflict, which is in the eye of the conflicted, so to speak.  If I had a nickel for every time a pilot thought something was too close for his comfort, but perfectly legal, I'd have many nickels.